This episode comes to you complete with a tinfoil hat , Jewish style, from Jihadi Jew, and also one of those fabulous rants Bad Hijabi is sometimes known for 😂
Summary :: The conversation explores the use of extreme language and rhetoric in public discourse, particularly in relation to the recent events in Los Angeles. The hosts discuss the normalization of using inflammatory and incendiary words to convey emotions and the impact it has on conversations and peaceful coexistence. They also touch on the complex history and emotions surrounding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, including the concept of shame and humiliation in Arab culture and the exploitation of helplessness and rage by leaders. The conversation emphasizes the need for understanding, empathy, and rational dialogue in order to move towards peaceful resolutions. The conversation explores the themes of fear, tribal loyalty, and the complexity of peace. It delves into the impact of fear on society and the role it plays in maintaining group cohesion. The speakers discuss the concept of tribal loyalty and how it can hinder empathy and understanding between different groups. They also examine the challenges of defining peace and the different interpretations of the term. The conversation concludes with a critique of the use of inflammatory language and the importance of honest and nuanced discussions.
Keywords :: extreme language, public discourse, inflammatory rhetoric, Los Angeles, normalization, Israeli-Palestinian conflict, shame, humiliation, helplessness, rage, leadership, peaceful resolutions, fear, tribal loyalty, peace, empathy, understanding, inflammatory language
Takeaways
The use of extreme language and rhetoric in public discourse has become normalized, making it difficult to have rational and productive conversations.
Understanding the complex emotions and historical context surrounding conflicts, such as the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, is crucial for fostering empathy and finding peaceful resolutions.
Leadership plays a significant role in shaping public opinion and can either exploit or address feelings of helplessness and rage.
Promoting understanding, empathy, and rational dialogue is essential for moving towards peaceful coexistence and resolving conflicts. Fear can be a powerful tool for maintaining group cohesion but may hinder societal progress.
Tribal loyalty can impede empathy and understanding between different groups.
Defining peace is complex and can vary depending on individual perspectives.
The use of inflammatory language can hinder productive and honest discussions.
Honest and nuanced conversations are essential for fostering understanding and finding solutions.
AI-Generated Titles
The Normalization of Extreme Language in Public Discourse
Promoting Understanding, Empathy, and Rational Dialogue for Peaceful Resolutions The Power and Pitfalls of Fear
The Challenge of Tribal Loyalty
Sound Bites
"We tend to use extreme words to convey our emotions, but it hinders productive conversations."
"Calling every disagreement or disparity 'genocide' or 'ethnic cleansing' stops conversations."
"Assuming the other side has monstrous intentions prevents understanding and empathy."
"Fear, look, of course, I'm Jewish and our drug of choice is fear."
"The Jewish, a lot of Jewish people are really like, it's like a kryptonite for each side to hear about the collective trauma about the other side."
"Nazi includes everything. You're a fascist, you're a genocidal maniac, you're, right, you're, basically it's everything all at once."
Chapters
00:00 The Normalization of Extreme Language
09:01 The Israeli-Palestinian Conflict and Extreme Rhetoric
30:00 Leadership's Role in Exploiting or Addressing Emotions
34:02 Promoting Understanding and Rational Dialogue
50:12 The Challenge of Tribal Loyalty
56:57 The Complexity of Defining Peace
01:02:44 The Impact of Inflammatory Language
01:04:57 The Importance of Honest and Nuanced Discussions
Transcript
Lee Weissman (00:00.142)
Thank you so much. Looks like I'm glad somebody's...
Bad Hijabi (00:01.261)
Roxanne's wearing her brain today because Lee said that he missed it so much so I decided I would put it back on. I've got like a pile of things right over there like that's out of the thing like couple scarves and like all my hats and stuff. I'm like which one should I wear today? I decided to pick my brain up.
Lee Weissman (00:07.406)
Yes, I like the brain a lot. The brains. We should all wear our brains on the outside.
Lee Weissman (00:21.617)
Yes. Well, I feel like after watching that debate, I should be wearing tin foil hat. Keep away, keep away the, keep away the, keep away the rays. I should be wearing that.
Bad Hijabi (00:32.685)
You
Bad Hijabi (00:36.941)
Well, this time, this, this, this, this decides that I'm definitely releasing this video. Sometimes I don't always release a video, but this video is getting released.
Lee Weissman (00:43.15)
Ha ha.
Lee Weissman (00:48.558)
Yes. So.
Bad Hijabi (00:51.117)
So we are going to talk about.
Lee Weissman (00:57.358)
What are we talking about?
Bad Hijabi (00:57.581)
Not a pogrom. I think we were just, we were talking about what happened on Sunday and the, the pogrom. Okay. The not a pogrom in LA here, we can pick our titles. Not a pogrom as in, I don't know if you remember Naomi Klein's mother was a filmmaker and she made a film called, this is not a love story. And it was all about women in pornography and stuff. So not a pogrom. That's one title. The other title is,
Lee Weissman (01:00.526)
Yes, yeah. Yeah.
Lee Weissman (01:08.846)
Yeah.
Lee Weissman (01:20.238)
yeah. Yeah.
Bad Hijabi (01:27.053)
Farhud in LA.
Lee Weissman (01:29.55)
Yes, that's another title. Yes. Yeah.
Bad Hijabi (01:32.237)
You know, because people, and it's like, it's really like, or how can you be St. George if there's no dragons? You know? But there are, we could go on. We could just like, this could just be the title of this, like the episode of titles. What really fascinates me about this is how, like, you know, the saying, a lie has traveled around the world before
Lee Weissman (01:40.334)
That's true, yes. There are many good titles that we could, yes.
Lee Weissman (01:49.742)
Yeah.
Bad Hijabi (01:59.725)
the truth even has a chance to tie it's shoes, right? And so like this whole, like someone was like, this is a pogrom, you know, like how we do that. And I find that we tend to do that in North American discourse where we pick like, they're being lynched or like we use like the really like extreme word, you know, to like, because we know like intellectually that was not like that, right? But in our head, like we feel so strongly about it that we need to convey our like emotions, right? So I feel like like we've normalized this because I'm not like, I don't really know now if people actually believe that that was a pogrom. And if they do, like, that's kind of scary to me. I don't know. I don't know.
Lee Weissman (02:56.238)
Yeah, I... my goodness. First of all, I have to say right off the bat, because I don't want to get myself in trouble. I wasn't there. Okay? Right. I was not there. Yes, we were not there. And I do know some people who were there, but I was not there. I know the neighbourhood well because...
Bad Hijabi (03:06.509)
Yes, yes, yes, yes, we were not there. We were not there.
Bad Hijabi (03:16.269)
Mm -hmm.
Lee Weissman (03:22.702)
I used to work in that neighbourhood, spend most of my time in that neighbourhood. Certainly extreme language has become...I guess it's not recent. It's not recent. I feel like over the past 10 years, and I kind of associate it with the Trump era, but I think even before that, it was kind of, I think, introduced mostly by the kind of the alt -right, I think, but I could be wrong. And before that, and before that, I think before the alt -right, you had the kind of, you had the, you know, the...the Chinese propaganda, capitalist running dog, the gang of four and all that. But I feel like we've become very, very used to using very extreme language about everything.
Bad Hijabi (04:22.925)
Yes, we've really normalized it. I don't know to the extent in these states, but I know in Canada, the whole gender thing has really, like, has really, does bear a lot of responsibility for normalizing the extreme use of language. You know, like saying, if you don't believe in my self ID,
Lee Weissman (04:25.774)
Right. So...
Bad Hijabi (04:50.381)
you're trying to kill me, like, you know, like just throwing around words like genocide and, you know, ethnic cleansing and like, you know, you're a white, like everyone's a white supremacist now, or everyone's a Nazi now, you know, and everything is ethnic cleansing and everything is genocide and everything is, you know, misogyny. And every time there's a disagreement or a disparity or something that offends you, automatically you hand out the wicked sticker.
Like I think that's your term by the way. And I think that's like wicked sticker. Like we're just, it's like we were walking around with a pile of wicked stickers and we have like a quota that we have to fulfill, you know, like the old days in the parking guys where they had their thing and they had to give so many out or whatever, that was the story. And so we're just, you know, we're out there. It's like we are on a commission or something
Lee Weissman (05:23.022)
Thank you, yes
Bad Hijabi (05:46.765)
(Some) damn thing. We'll get some kind of moral commission for handing out wicked stickers to people. Like that's what it is. And then it's like, it's like you made your thing. I've seen that in a few platforms where you have like the choose your word, you know, and it's like, let's just have this sheet where we pick off the words and the way we don't even have to have a conversation. We can just pick these words and you know, it's, it's almost deliberate. It's almost like people do that deliberately. They know if they pick that most like you know, like inflammatory incendiary word that everyone everything's gonna stop and then that you know, it's almost like some kind of attention thing or I don't know.
Lee Weissman (06:27.31)
Well, it's sort of an old trick, right? The famous, when did you stop beating your wife question? When did you stop being a genocidal maniac? Or when did you start being a genocidal maniac? Well, once you've kind of put that into the mix, and I think you're right, it's become very,
Bad Hijabi (06:36.237)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Lee Weissman (06:56.686)
become very these these showstoppers that's kind of what they're meant to be they're meant to be showstoppers they're meant to end conversation right once
Bad Hijabi (07:05.741)
And I'm sorry to interrupt you, but also I think it's like a lot of this is attention seeking, and it's become incentivized to get attention that way, right? You know, too, you know?
Lee Weissman (07:16.974)
Yeah, I think people, you know, for the example in the Los Angeles case, I think part of it, I mean, I think part of it is...is a genuine, you know, when they use the word pogrom, you know, I think part of it is that when you live in a Jewish neighbourhood like that, okay, you live in a neighbourhood like that because you want a feeling of community and safety. You wanna see people who look like you and you want the conveniences, you know, kosher shopping, kosher restaurants.
Bad Hijabi (07:41.549)
Mmm.
Bad Hijabi (07:59.661)
Mmm.
Bad Hijabi (08:05.549)
Mm -hmm.
Lee Weissman (08:05.774)
lots of synagogues, you know, for you to be able to go to pray and to have choices. And the schools are typically there for your children. And really, aside from work, you really don't have to leave those neighbourhoods. And they're supposed to feel safe. You know, they're not exactly European ghettos, right? They're not exactly European ghettos.
But they have some of those kind of characteristics. And I can see how this protest felt like an invasion, right? And not only that, there's all these threatening symbols, right? There's people in keffiyahs and the keffiyahs covering the faces, and they're yelling intifada, which means two very different things.
Bad Hijabi (09:00.621)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Lee Weissman (09:01.806)
To Palestinians, intifada means resistance, right? I mean, we are making resistance. To Jews, intifada generally recalls the intifadas in Israel, which were accompanied by violence against civilians and attacks on buses and people were...
Bad Hijabi (09:09.284)
Mm -hmm.
Bad Hijabi (09:26.605)
—and just say, I think that all North Americans can agree when we hear the word Intifada, that is a call for violence. Like when they are screaming Intifada, I do take that as like being like a call for violence, like River to the Sea and shit like that. Those, those things are like, they're not jokes. So I just want to, like, I don't want to seem like I'm diminishing anything. They aren't jokes, but I also think that Jon Kay has a point—
Lee Weissman (09:35.662)
Right, and that's true, right.
Lee Weissman (09:40.814)
Right.
Lee Weissman (09:48.75)
Right, and, right, I think.
Bad Hijabi (09:55.821)
—what he would probably say, everyone who is saying these things, like if you asked some North American little shithead kid who's in university, what does that mean? They probably can't tell you what sea and what river. You know what I'm saying? So I think that that's really important to keep in mind, like to have some perspective. So.
Lee Weissman (10:10.958)
Right, and I think that that's, right, and I think that's true.
Right. I think that's true and I think it's important to understand how political rhetoric, how little understood it can be. I mean, I think if you ask...
Bad Hijabi (10:34.572)
The story from the Talmud about cancel culture, you know, the story that we talked about last week, right? Because let's face it, that's what the Bar Kamtza story is about, right? That's exactly what that was about. It was like a stupid thing. Like really mean that's all sort of what we're talking about. You know, some people hear a word and they think, okay, you're trying to kill me. And other people are like, this is just some cool thing we say, right?
Lee Weissman (10:50.382)
Right.
Bad Hijabi (11:03.277)
Like, because to be honest, anybody who's a North American doesn't like who like grew up here and like has only seen like even if you're our age, like I'm 55, you're like 63 or something like that. So like we've lived through a lot of things, right. But that stuff has always been over there.
And I'm like a survivor of violence, but like, you know, still I don't, I've never lived, I've never had the reality where there's like a bomb shelter or a bomb room in my house or something. So like, I think there's like a real, like, and I know like a lot, that's the experience of a lot of Jewish people who have like an attachment to Israel, that that's their, that's where they think, right? So like, I think that there's a lot of like misunderstanding and disconnect and like real—everyone making assumptions with their emotional brain. Because like I'm, I don't really believe that the average North American really is going is calling for a mass, for mass extermination of anybody. I think that we have come to use these words, we've come to be lazy with our language. Remember what George, isn't George Orwell, that wrote a thing about that, when we're lazy with language, when we don't mean what we say and say what we mean.
Then this is where we have, you know, these troubles, public chaos and public discourse and stuff like that. Didn't he write something like that in like 1954 or whatever? So this is like really Orwellian times, but I really think it's irresponsible for North Americans, especially anyone who's seen every single piece of footage from October the 7th to say, yes, what happened in LA was a pogrom. But yes, like a pogrom, like what happened in Southern Israel on October the 7th.
Lee Weissman (12:30.062)
Yes.
Bad Hijabi (12:50.253)
I mean, if both of those things are pogroms, then I don't really think the word pogrom means anything anymore. And then we, like the problem with this, the problem with this is not me trying to diminish anybody's experience. You know, the people in your Facebook thing, you know, the guy who was like accusing you of absolving whatever, that's fear. I don't diminish his fear. I'm sure what he saw was terrifying and like, it's awful. Okay. It's terrible.
But like this, then we can't have conversations if we're calling every single thing bigotry, you know, a genocide, ethnic cleansing, you know, a pogrom, like anti -Semitism. If we're calling everything bad, like and show and stopping the conversation, like, okay, how, like, how are we gonna have peaceful coexistence when everyone's a monster?
Lee Weissman (13:45.454)
Right, and I think that that's what I saw. I watched whatever footage was available on that event. I watched over and over, trying to get a feel for it because it is local. To me, that neighbourhood means a lot to me, and those people mean a lot to me.
Bad Hijabi (14:06.829)
Okay.
Sure. Sure.
Lee Weissman (14:13.742)
I kept watching it. And what I saw was like exactly that. There was, there was, everybody was treating everybody like a monster. The assumption was that the people who were going into real estate seminar were monsters, who are monsters who are trying to, who are trying to steal Palestinian land. And the assumption was the people who are standing, standing outside and who are protesting were monsters who wanted to kill all Jews. And, and and that anything that they might say, I think that this is, I think, partially, anything they might say to the contrary. So while somebody would, imagine, okay, imagine that somebody with a level head, right, on the Palestinian side were to stop one of these people, one of the sub people who was going into the real estate seminar and say to them, you know, listen, I want you to understand why we're here. We're here.
Bad Hijabi (14:43.789)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Lee Weissman (15:08.846)
We're here because we believe that that land beyond the green line is in dispute and these people are selling that land and really you have no business and really you have no business buying it and it's a land grab and so on. They could have said that. And if they had said that, the other person would say, no. He says, really, you just hate us and you want us all to die and this is just a cover.
Bad Hijabi (15:28.173)
Mm -hmm.
Lee Weissman (15:39.182)
And on the other side, right? On the other side. Let's say that somebody, let's say that somebody who on the side of the people who are going into that event had a level head, right? And would go and talk to one of the protesters and say, listen, I want you to understand. You know, I have a family here in America and I really believe
Bad Hijabi (15:52.973)
Mm -hmm.
Lee Weissman (16:03.758)
I really believe that it's a Jew's obligation to live in the land of Israel if you possibly can, or at least own land, to own something in the land of Israel. That feels to me like a religious obligation. And it's probably the best place for me to raise my family as religious Jew. And I'm just looking for a good place for my family to live where they can thrive, right? And the other person would say, no, you're not. You're part of a settler colonialist project. And you just want genocide against the Palestinians. The assumption is that the other person has monstrous intentions.
Bad Hijabi (16:48.493)
Well, yeah, that you can't take what they say at face value because they're lying to you, right? You've you've entered the discourse like not, you know, not in good faith. Like you're not like you. You very succinctly said like, you know, the reason why you were accused of of absolving is because you chose to take the person people out there, you know, at their face, right? You chose to, you know, treat them as like a reasonable person and, you know, say, okay, yeah, maybe like you do have a point and maybe, you know, whatever, right? So.
Lee Weissman (17:35.374)
Yeah, as we talked about last week, I don't believe... No, I shouldn't say that. I shouldn't say that. Yes?
Bad Hijabi (17:41.357)
Okay, here, I'll read what you said. Stop, I know, I was—sorry. I'm looking, I was looking, I will read what you said. “I take the pro-Palestinian protesters at their word that they have a reason for protesting besides a blind, irrational hatred for Jews and that I can understand the line of reasoning that would make a real estate seminar that involves purchasing property in West Bank, Judea, and Samaria objectionable.That is not absolution. I don't have the power or desire to absolve anyone.” That's what you said, right?
Lee Weissman (18:14.158)
Right, correct. Right, that's what I said. That's what I said. Right, but the assumption that the other side, whoever the other side is, has any kind of rationality as opposed to a monstrous hatred is considered to be very offensive.
Bad Hijabi (18:19.565)
That's very reasonable, right?
Bad Hijabi (18:42.381)
But the other was, yes.
Lee Weissman (18:42.542)
And that goes both ways. You see this all the time. There's no possibility that this person has a reason.
Bad Hijabi (18:53.677)
Yeah, there's no willingness to give the benefit of the doubt. So the other part of this to be balanced is that, you know, there's nothing wrong with having a real estate seminar, you know, for Jewish people who want to buy land in Israel. So what? I don't care. I'd like I am not the like landowning police of the whole world, right? I don't really care. But the issue, so the issue is not that. The issue is that, you know, the companies that were listed or whatever have in the past or, you know, are currently, you know, have had involvement with, you know, Zone C or, you know, West Bank properties. And when I was looking at this, because I don't know anything about this and I tried not to, not to fill my brain with more stuff, but since it became an issue that I wanted to know.
Lee Weissman (19:45.39)
Mm -hmm.
Bad Hijabi (19:49.773)
So there's not really any way for somebody like me who doesn't know anything about that geography beyond what somebody tells me. Like if I went on there, it's like, I'm going to buy some property, you know, and like I would have no way of knowing because I don't know the names of anything. Whoa, is that like a safe, safe property for me to buy? Like, is that in the, like, you know, in the, in the non-disputed area, there's not any distinction that's made. So, you know, there's some, I don't
Lee Weissman (20:04.91)
Mm -hmm.
Bad Hijabi (20:18.221)
…you know, begrudge anybody buying whatever they want to buy in Israel. But I do begrudge the fact that we're being told that, it's no big deal. And if you actually go and do a little bit of research, you can see that this whole issue of whether that is even an occupation and, you know, who is entitled to that whole like zone C thing, which what I read was that Oslo II in 1995, which can we say that's 30 years ago, said that this zone C was supposed to be slowly, gradually given over to the Palestinians and it doesn't really look like that's happening. I mean, I don't think that that's really gonna happen if there's all this real estate development and this, like, I looked a little bit and there's like, you know, a little valley where it seems to be like there's really like a push to develop and to get like the right people, you know, to like settle this area. I'm nobody. I don't know anything about this. This is just like when I looked at it for three hours. That's what I that's what I could see. Okay. So like I think there is like people do have like a valid concern that whenever these seminars are happening that they should like you know express some concern about it.
And like maybe I'm just paying attention now after October the 7th, but I don't know if this was like a really such a big deal before October the 7th. And now everybody, all of a sudden everybody's really excited about this. So I don't know. I think that a lot of people are putting a lot of things onto this simple act of buying land, but it all is betraying the fact that there is some issues about this land.
Lee Weissman (22:01.966)
Well, there's a fundamental difference of worldview here. I can say with some assurance that most of the members of that synagogue, I'm not sure all of them, believe that Judea and Samaria has what the rest of the world would call the West Bank belongs to the Jewish people, right? Well, they believe it belongs to the Jewish people and that, and the act of settling it and the act of purchasing land in it is a way of Judaising what should be Judaised. I, yeah.
Bad Hijabi (22:51.789)
I've heard of a couple of Canadians who are of Palestinian origin. One is Carima Sa'ad, and she, her dad was Palestinian. She's an independent journalist and a lawyer, and she works out of Toronto. And she like...
Lee Weissman (23:11.918)
Mm -hmm.
Bad Hijabi (23:16.013)
It's mostly a lot of her footage that is seen. If you see footage out of Canadian protests and stuff happening in Toronto, chances are it's hers. So she's said that her dad, like they had a house or they had a property and they have the key. And it's like, there's no way ever that that family is ever going to get that back. And then there's actually another woman, I think her name is Ghada
Lee Weissman (23:24.75)
Mm -hmm.
Lee Weissman (23:31.63)
Mm -hmm.
Yes.
Bad Hijabi (23:43.885)
Sasa or something like that. And she's like, I think she's somewhat like in Hamilton or somewhere. She's like a PhD candidate or she was like in the university track. And I think she's affiliated with one of the like, you know, SPY or like the Palestinian youth, whatever, one of those Palestinian student groups, right? And her family, McMaster, it was McMaster. So,
Lee Weissman (24:05.038)
Mm -hmm.
Lee Weissman (24:09.55)
I’m—McMaster, right, right, right, right. Yeah.
Bad Hijabi (24:11.437)
which I think, so anyway, so her family has a similar thing where there was a house or like land or something and they can't get it back. And so I, sorry, one just, I can imagine as somebody with a history of slavery who does like the indentureship and stuff like that, like I get that. I get that feeling and I understand that that's an issue to see like when,
Lee Weissman (24:18.958)
Yeah, I think the key...
Bad Hijabi (24:41.165)
whole world seems to be treating your people like human animals and everyone's endorsing that and no one wants them. And then to see people who are one of the superpowers in that area of the world selling what could be your property. I don't know if someone came here and tried to take my shit, I would be mad. And I feel like that people are putting those emotions on that issue.
Lee Weissman (25:12.494)
Yeah, well, I think that that's a lot of it. The key has become kind of a symbol of Palestinian resistance.
What happened in 1947, 1948 is very complicated. People left for all sorts of reasons. There were people. I'm going to say it and I'm sure people will beat me up for it, but there were certainly people who were pushed out of their homes. There's no question. There were people who left because they were trying to get out of the way of the war.
And then, and steps were taken to make sure that they never came back. And you can look at how many Palestinian villages were destroyed and how many Arab neighbourhoods in Jerusalem were emptied out. And now those places are now owned by Jews. They've been modified and everything else.
And people go, Arab families have gone back to see the homes that they can no longer enter because they're owned by someone else. So certainly that's part of it. And part of it is also that during the past year and since October 7th, there's been a lot more, there's been a lot more settler, there's been a lot more settler violence, particularly over land, particularly over land, olive groves and so forth. There's been a lot of stuff going, a lot of stuff going on. So there's a lot of anger. There's a lot of anger already, you know, and from the perspective of these people who are buying, you know, from the people who are buying, right, they're buying in, you know, in what look like nice suburban, you know, nice suburban tracts, you know, that happen to be beyond the green line, you know, in the, and are technically settlements, but they look very nice. And that's also part of the problem. Part of the problem is that water resources become, you know, there's a fight about water resources, that water resources are typically channeled more to the settlements. So farmers and so on struggled, struggled to water their fields while the settlements may have, you know, swimming pools and other kinds of, you know, green grass and.
Bad Hijabi (28:03.309)
And the farmers are trying to cultivate land and the settlements are arguably should not even be there. So the optics of that are kind of a bit shitty, right?
Lee Weissman (28:15.822)
Right, and then there's the other argument, which of course they should be there, and they're just two very, very, very different...
Bad Hijabi (28:30.221)
Yes, but I mean, I think we can say that farming, I don't know, farmers trying to cultivate the land and trying to grow things, if they can't get water. But all of these insufferable people who are urbanites, I don't know. I think it's always been that's a whole other thing I just raised with the urban versus the rural.
Lee Weissman (28:41.294)
Yes, it's a huge
Bad Hijabi (28:55.469)
whatever, but like, cause that's an ongoing thing here. You know, like there's always this like, you know, it's a bit of a, it's a bit of a philosophical thing, right? The rural, you know, you know, what do the resources are needed by the rural people versus like, you know, the urban centres and all this stuff like that is kind of.
Lee Weissman (29:15.822)
I mean, you know, the, you know.
The fact is, these are, some of these, some are kind of suburban. There are some of the settlements which are agricultural also, or livestock or whatever.
Bad Hijabi (29:31.437)
Hmm. You know what's interesting is this whole house property thing and from the past, because you know there were lots and lots of people on the planet in the 1940s who were displaced from their homes and never got them back. And we don't see a bunch of Japanese people and we don't see a bunch of European Jewish people trotting around the world, making everyone's life miserable because some shit happened to them like 80 years ago.
I'm sorry, but like, it's not like just one particular group of people suffered and everyone else sat around and had a party over it. Like, life is more complicated than that. And I get that people, like I just said, you know, about the key and stuff. We know that, but it's not just one, like the 1940s were really hard for humanity. Like, I don't think there was an area of the globe.
Lee Weissman (30:01.006)
Well...
Bad Hijabi (30:29.133)
There was a partitioning of India. There was, you know, the Japanese were interned. The Italians were interned. The Germans, you know, were hated. You know, people were, I said this in the DM, the people were liberated from the death camps and they thought they were going home and they didn't have a home. And there was like a bunch of displaced people. Like life is hard. Cope. I don't mean to sound heartless, but you know.
Lee Weissman (30:50.894)
Yeah, I think there are lots of reasons why that didn't happen. I don't understand the Palestinian, you know, I can't speak for the Palestinian reality because I don't understand it. I don't understand it as well as I would like to. And I also understand that cultures are different and I feel
This is my “standing on one foot”. I think part of it is that shame and humiliation is in Arab culture is, and again, please, people have to forgive me if I'm speaking in ignorance, but I feel like that shame and humiliation in Arab culture are extremely painful. And there was an, and has a meaning that I think is very different from other folks. And I think that that's a lot of what has gone on here is a reaction to shame and humiliation. And...
Bad Hijabi (32:11.533)
I really think something you have said in the past a few times too is the fact that, and I've alluded to this, their leadership bears the leadership, leadership generally in society, not just one particular leadership, all leadership, really bears a big responsibility for leading in a way that exploits people's feelings of helplessness and make, and and farms their fear and farms their rage. Having been a Muslim for a few years, that is something that I can say that I observed that there was like, because I have like a reference frame, I'm one of the few people who has practiced more than one religion. So I get to say this. In Catholicism, it's all about contrition and all about you know, admitting you did wrong and embracing the humbleness, right? Okay. And, and trying to like find peace with that and stuff. Okay.
And, in Islam, in the Muslim world, it's about, like you said, that is a real sore point. It's like there's a wound that's seeping and everyone's angry and there's so much helplessness and there is an attempt and which is really what what attracted me, the whole, you know, Rumi. Like Rumi comes from that. Like Rumi was, you know, a scholar and a jurist and he, well, you knew the Quran. And so, you know, all of these other people who are farming helplessness and rage and saying we should go around slaughtering each other. Well, they read the same Quran that Rumi did and he wrote a bunch of cool shit about it. So, you know, there's a way to see. It depends what you want to see.
But I think now this is all about like, it depends what lens you're looking through and it depends if you're like stuck in your fear state. And I think there is a lot of unresolved trauma and there's a lot of like collective trauma and there's a lot of, this is the thing, it's effervescent. There is some kind of effervescence of helplessness and rage in the Muslim world. And it's, in my opinion, it's being exploited by the leaders who do have the power, especially American Muslim leaders, like imams and stuff, they have the power to like say, hey, you know what? Like leadership, I think leadership really bears a big responsibility because there's some kind of, there's an incentive for them to lead their people this way. I don't know, I see it as a choice of leadership to choose to focus on these things. This is like using your religion. Like, how do you, like, is it self -examination? Is it embracing humility? Is it like telling people this is really horrible, you should feel bad about it? I felt like there was a lot of this is really awful, we're victims, be angry. And I don't know if that's really the way to motivate people to change society.
Lee Weissman (34:59.182)
Well...
Lee Weissman (35:02.894)
We are.
Lee Weissman (35:25.134)
Well, it is certainly not a way to motivate people to change society. It is, however, a good way to keep people together. I mean, fear, look, of course, I'm Jewish and our drug of choice is fear. That's our, right? Well, yeah, right. But we do, I think we do fear probably better than anyone else.
Bad Hijabi (35:43.085)
Everyone's is. Everyone is high on fear.
Lee Weissman (35:54.126)
I'm just saying, I mean, I don’t want to brag about my people, but—
Bad Hijabi (35:55.181)
Yeah, you are like, yeah, like because we we we just started this. We started this show with this episode by talking about a pogrom in like a modern LA neighbourhood. So yes, you guys do fear really well.
Lee Weissman (36:05.518)
Right, right, right. I mean, right. No, I mean, it's no but but but but—
Bad Hijabi (36:11.597)
I mock it, but that's how we, that's how I just deal with things. Cause they're silly.
Lee Weissman (36:14.222)
Right, but Jewish fear, I mean, that's a huge part of our culture. You know, I grew up, so my grandmother once described to me, okay, my grandmother on my father's side, because my grandmother on my mother's side is not like this at all, my grandmother on my father's side once asked her,
Bad Hijabi (36:34.925)
Mm -hmm.
Lee Weissman (36:41.55)
you know if she ever wanted to go back to you know Lithuania you know to you know she was she was born Lithuania then she moved to Liverpool England she didn't know Liverpool was not classy which is pretty amazing she thought Liverpool was really classy but in any case yeah yeah yeah so and she she she sometimes she thought that was really posh and
Bad Hijabi (36:48.717)
Hmm.
Bad Hijabi (37:01.901)
Robert's gonna laugh when he hears that one.
Lee Weissman (37:10.478)
But she describes she said, no, because I remember the Cossacks throwing the babies up into the air and spearing them on their on their spears. OK, now there were no Cossacks in Lithuania. OK, and certainly not in the time that my grandmother lived. And she never saw such a thing. But that was her way of describing what it felt like to be a Jew in Lithuania in her time, right? And I feel like these stories.
You know, these stories become a very big part of people's kind of mental, you know, mental things. And it's amazing, you know, I have to say, you know, when I hear, you know, I've had Palestinian friends, I know you're not supposed to say things like that, because it makes you sound stupid, but, Fiddler on the Roof, yes, but I do. Yeah, I'm not allowed to have Palestinian friends.
Bad Hijabi (38:00.365)
so just Lee has a permission slip. It's upstairs right now. It's in his night stand drawer, but he does have a permission slip. He is allowed to have Palestinian friends and he's allowed to comment on things in case anyone just, you know.
Lee Weissman (38:10.03)
Okay, I am allowed, yes. I have a permission to, yes. Yes, I do have permission to have Palestinian friends. And I've had the privilege to listen to their stories about family stuff, about what happened to them, 1948, the Nakba and everything else. And it sounds very familiar, right? I mean, it sounds very familiar. It sounds a lot like the things that you hear from people who left, Jewish people who left Iraq.
You know, as you said, you know, the...
Bad Hijabi (38:54.989)
You know, the only thing that the only thing about that is the people that have those stories, they don't they typically in my view, they don't have any kind of empathy for or they have eroded empathy for anything that was going on that was similar for Europeans. Like they almost have like some kind of I don't know. And then it's like it's like a two way street. Because the Jewish, a lot of Jewish people are really like, it's like a kryptonite for each side to hear about the collective trauma about the other side. You know what I'm saying? Like, we don't want to hear about the key. They don't want to hear about the key. They don't want to hear about, you know, Auschwitz and how, you know, terrible it was and like how.
Lee Weissman (39:38.222)
Yeah.
Lee Weissman (39:43.246)
Right. Right.
Bad Hijabi (39:52.493)
Can you please not make the like the, you know, the comparison of the commandant of Auschwitz’s wife trying on a fucking fur coat from some dead Jews, the comparison of that to anybody holding a fucking real estate seminar. I'm sorry. I think you need therapy. Okay. I'm just going to say that I'm not fucking apologizing for that shit. That's like, that is deliberately.
Seeking to wound others because anybody who's intelligent enough, you know If you have any kind of fucking especially if you have any kind of graduate and postgraduate fucking education You're intelligent enough and wise enough to know that is not an appropriate comparison Okay Like really if you're going around pointing out who's a bad person and handing out wicked stickers. I don't know
Lee Weissman (40:49.23)
Right, I mean, at this point...
Bad Hijabi (40:49.357)
I fucking find that pretty fucking offensive and I'm gonna swear because that's really just repugnant now, okay? Just really.
Lee Weissman (40:55.982)
You swear? I've never heard that before. It's amazing. I mean, it's amazing. But listen, the Nazi thing is everybody's favorite Wicked sticker, right? I mean, if you were gonna collect them, I mean, fascist is pretty good. Fascist is pretty good. That's a pretty good Wicked sticker.
Bad Hijabi (40:59.341)
Yeah, surprise! You learn things about me every day, don't you?
Lee Weissman (41:25.326)
and genocide is a really good way to say it. But Nazi includes everything. You're a fascist, you're a genocidal maniac, you're, right, you're, basically it's everything all at once. So it's the single best thing to call somebody who you don't like.
Bad Hijabi (41:37.709)
because it shows that they don't even really know anything about it. Like if you were to say, okay, that's very Goebbelsian. I would be like, shake your hand. You know enough about that to call it something. Okay. If somebody can name what it is, they can name the thing in Nazism that it reminds them of. Okay. That's a conversation starter.
But if you've just gone around and made some like really inappropriate moral equivalence that's like, if you thought about it for like, if you, this is the thing I said to you, this is why we're doing this. We're throwing these, we're playing like, you know, bomb tennis or whatever. We're playing like bomb volleyball, or you remember in like volleyball when you had to like spike the ball over the net, you like wanted to like, you inflict the most paint on everyone.
Okay, that's what's happening. And the reason that's so desirable to do is because when you keep doing that, you never have to stop to think about the fact that like you are a fucking idiot. Okay? It's idiocy. It's like, it doesn't even make sense. It's dumb. It's like...
Lee Weissman (42:48.078)
… greatest idea. I, instead of in, do you remember the game dodgeball? So instead of having protests, I think we should have, you know, instead of having protests and counter protests, I think we should have dodgeball games. You know, I think people, yeah, people just play dodgeball and the other way they could throw balls to each other and they could get each other out and they could, you know, get off all that energy. No, the chuck, listen, the chucking of the bombs
Bad Hijabi (42:52.525)
Yes!
Bad Hijabi (43:02.861)
Woohoo! That would be fun!
Bad Hijabi (43:13.357)
Yeah.
Lee Weissman (43:18.553)
you know, what I saw one of the things.
Bad Hijabi (43:21.133)
Like, and so sorry, I just want to say it's unfortunate because it makes me angry about that, right? And I'm sure that these people, you know, like Yehuda and Khalid and, you know, stuff, I even remember their names. What they said was important enough for me to take note. Like, and so if we could get past all of this, you're a gangster, you know, or you're absolving Hamas or look at you. You're just like the commandants, you know,
Lee Weissman (43:38.99)
Mm -hmm.
Bad Hijabi (43:50.925)
of Auschwitz's wife, you know, who's look at her, she's, you know, trying off her coat from dead people and stuff. I mean, like, do you want peace? Because those are not the words of people who want peace. And you live in one of like the best, like most like lucrative house, like, you know, privileged places on fucking planet. And you're like, I'm a victim. And you're acting helpless and shit.
Like I think that's really like how is the rest of the fucking world supposed to like, how are the people in like actual Gaza or actual, you know, Israel where they have bombs flying over their heads every day and rockets and shit. How are these people supposed to cope with their life when some person in like cushy Los Angeles is sitting there acting all bitter and shit and what like, I'm sorry, I'm going to keep going because I'm, I'm just an asshole like that. All of these fucking praying three or five times a day and all of the Torah study and all of that shit y 'all have done where is that because I didn't see that in those fucking comments if all you people and your prayers and your quran you could probably recite the quran you probably you know whatever but i'm like i'm a lowly idiot because I don't belong to a religious club and I don't know any of the things right like what like what's the point of it. It's a gang! Like I said before, it's a gang! If you're doing all of these things and going and learning the Torah and all of this stuff and practicing all these things, celebrating all these holidays, but this is a your game that you bring to the table? What are you doing?
Lee Weissman (45:34.734)
Yeah, well, it's very, listen, it's very, I'm gonna be, you know, more moderate than you are, okay? I'm not gonna use those words, okay? Come back down to earth. It's very difficult, you know, when people, you know.
Bad Hijabi (45:40.397)
That's why we're working together because you're like, okay, Roxanne shhh come back down to earth.
Lee Weissman (45:56.302)
We can dress up, we've learned how to dress up our reptilian brains in pretty fancy words, but they're still our reptilian brains. And when people feel threatened, they just, they go right back to their reptile. And it doesn't, the reptile is not very far from the surface. And...
And I understand, by the way, I should say, it's important to understand that I understand that a lot of the things that I say really can rub people the wrong way because I'm supposed to be representing. I'm supposed to be representing. And that's, yes.
Bad Hijabi (46:47.213)
Can I just interrupt and say, but the reason why you have these views is because you've traveled around the world and you realize that your tribe isn't the whole world. You've realized that since the age of 14. So, I mean, you know, and a lot of other people have never left the neighborhood.
Lee Weissman (47:00.238)
Right, that's right. I have this.
Right. And I have, listen, one of the things that I do, I'm not gonna, I don't wanna talk about myself, but I just say, like, no, sure I did, I love talking about myself, but no, but like, I don't expect people to think like me because they don't have my experience. People have different experiences.
Bad Hijabi (47:13.357)
come on, sure you do. No, no.
But they should like at least, you know, acknowledge the fact that there are other ways of thinking, you know, and try to wrap their head around that shit.
Lee Weissman (47:30.862)
Yeah, you know, you know, like, so a shout out to if she hears this, one of my one of my one of the people who I most like in the world is a Palestinian woman we used to have. We used to have on on Saturday, on Saturday nights, we used to eat donuts together. We go to Krispy Kreme and have donuts together. And we're still we're still friends. And—
Bad Hijabi (47:53.549)
Aww.
Lee Weissman (47:59.982)
And you know, like that changes your view of the world, you know, like you can't, you can't, you can't think, cause now if I think about, if I, if when I think about the Palestinian issue, I think about a certain, you know, I think about a certain person who I like very much and her family and, you know, and I know kind of, you know,
Bad Hijabi (48:23.213)
That's why we're told not to go outside of the tribe because then the danger becomes that you humanize the people that are supposed to be your enemy and it fucks with your shit.
Lee Weissman (48:27.118)
Right, so...
Right. Right. So like I don't expect other people, I don't expect other people who have had different experiences, you know, who have had different experiences. And I struggle, I have my own experiences too, you know. I have the negative experiences too, you know. I've walked, you know.
Bad Hijabi (48:48.637)
I'm going to... Sure, I'm just going to acknowledge the power of tribes because I said, okay, you know, I just finished ranting about all these people who are so, you know, seem to me to be so pious and they show up at all the things and they pray and stuff. I understand because I have left religion twice. I understand that's hard and most people don't do it because the power of the tribe and then and the whatever needs are fulfilled by that is enormous. And often the tribe wins over whatever your inner compass or moral compass or whatever commandment you should be individually following. Like it's just human nature. Like if you have to pick between a tribe and like an internal value, most people will choose the tribe. So like, I don't think that means that a person is bad. I just, I am not a tribe person. So I just push back and I remind people that you know like you're not gonna die if you leave the tribe. It's pretty shitty but like if you're killing yourself inside you should probably leave the tribe right? That's all.
Lee Weissman (49:50.35)
Well, part of ..er—
Lee Weissman (49:56.782)
Part of it is also that tribal loyalty, I don't want to get into this whole thing, but this is maybe for another day, tribal loyalty is also kind of enshrined as religious value.
Bad Hijabi (50:05.645)
Mm -hmm.
Bad Hijabi (50:11.629)
Yes. And that's the thing of, you know, like, hating the wicked, because really, let's face it, hating the wicked is a tribal signal at this point. And loving your neighbor, right, which is like you're supposed to this is how I'm going to interpret the struggle. You know, hating the wicked is hating the person who is like the designated bad who I've been told by, you know, the tribe or whatever the herd that that's wicked, you're supposed to hate that. And loving my neighbor is just loving everyone. So at some point those two things conflict and we always come back to that. Like how do you like hate the wicked and love your neighbor, you know?
Lee Weissman (50:46.958)
Well, we can solve that problem. We can solve that problem. We just define the, I don't want to get, I'm going to sound like Jesus in the gospels now and now I'm going to get in big trouble. But you just define your neighbor more narrowly, right? So I can solve that problem. So loving your neighbor means loving your fellow tribe member and hating the wicked means hating whoever the tribe tells you to hate. And that solves the problem, right?
Bad Hijabi (51:11.597)
But that's like then how can you go around and try to convince people that God is real? Because how you have to do that is say well God made everything so if you believe that God made everything but you believe that you only have to love your own tribe then I think that you have like some conflicts in your head and that's why you're an asshole because if your head is is going to keep it's going to keep creating misery inside you until you face that conundrum or at least acknowledge the fact that those two things you can't have both.
Lee Weissman (51:49.454)
But what if God made everything but he just happens to like me better?
Bad Hijabi (51:53.325)
Here's a question that I've always had. I used to ask my mom this and she did not know what to do. I used to be like, mom, do you think that God loves the devil? You know, because he made the devil and he's supposed to love everyone that he made, right? And he never stopped loving. And like, we'd have that. Like, I think on that level, like, and when people are like, God hates.
Like, okay, I understand what that says. We're going a bit off topic, but not really, because this is ultimately about like people in a religious community feeling justified to hate based on something that God tells them. So this is like Westboro Baptist saying God hates gay people and stuff like that. And so I have take issue with that, you know, because my brother was gay and a Catholic and all of that stuff. So.
This all this hate God said to hate this person and God said to hate that person. I sort of I said this before. I sort of feel like that makes God like your ego defense mechanism because I don't have this vision that God hates anyone. I don't know that you could put those two. I don't know. I just have a real problem with that language and I don't know the word that's being used in the original text, but I just. People that need to live their religious life thinking that God needs them to hate anything. I think the behavior is whatever behaviors could be loathsome, but I don't think that we need to be like hating anyone. I don't know.
Lee Weissman (53:25.422)
A famous... I probably mentioned this story in one of my classes, a famous story about Rabbi Meir. He had a neighbor who was obnoxious, apparently. And I think the neighbor is called... I think it's in the Talmud it's in ... Barakhot He's called a philosopher or something, but I think maybe he was a Christian or maybe... It's unclear what he was. But he was was who Rabbi Meir didn't like. And his wife comes home, his wife whose name was Bruriah was a famous scholar in her own right. And she found him holding a chicken in between his knees. He had this chicken he was holding. And she said, what are you doing with this chicken? And he said, well, I'm about to curse our neighbor.
Bad Hijabi (53:58.125)
Mm -hmm.
Lee Weissman (54:22.062)
Apparently there was some kind of a curse you could do when the chicken crowed at a certain time. You could do this magic thing. He was going to do this magic thing to curse. And she says to him, she says, but shouldn't you curse the sin and not the sinner? Right? Shouldn't curse the sin and not the sinner. And that's always been my attitude, right? Because we also believe in we believe in repentance and the ability of people to change, right? So we don't curse anybody because so the, you know, does God hate things? I think, I think there are behaviors. I think, you know, I think that there are probably behaviors for sure that there are behaviors that God hates, whatever extent, you know, when we talk about God's emotions, it's like we're talking about anything in relation to God. It is so to speak. It's not, it's not, you know,
Bad Hijabi (55:18.893)
It's an abstraction to try to understand him because he doesn't he doesn't have those things.
Lee Weissman (55:20.27)
It's abstractions. It's for us to be able to understand. We can't, because we can't, you know, we don't understand what it means to be God. We barely understand what it means to be ourselves. So, you know, I believe that there, I do believe that there are things that we should strongly discourage and there are things we should strongly encourage and that those should not, and those are not always defined well by the tribe.
That's my personal opinion. I don't think that, I don't think the tribe always defines that well.
Bad Hijabi (55:49.933)
Like, you know, the self loathing Jew, the kapo Jew, or, you know, the whatever, right? The like, the sellout, whatever, you know, the Palestinians have there are Muslims have like their thing to where they, you know, like, I don't know, it's like, like, like, I feel like people, there's people that are crying for peace, and they're behaving like warrior, like they're at war.
Lee Weissman (55:58.158)
Right, yeah, right.
Lee Weissman (56:11.758)
So I know.
Bad Hijabi (56:19.821)
So like, I sort of feel like there's a lot of disconnect between the things that people are saying and their behavior, you know.
Lee Weissman (56:28.174)
Well, I think also, I think that yes, we have to remember that, we have to remember that peace, you know, in the Torah, you know, it says that before you make a siege on a town, you give an offer of peace. Well, that offer of peace actually doesn't mean peace, it means surrender, right? It means surrender, it means you,
Bad Hijabi (56:47.181)
Mm -hmm.
Bad Hijabi (56:54.253)
Hmm.
Lee Weissman (56:57.966)
… you express your willingness to put yourself under my authority. And I think, so I think a lot of times what people mean by peace are two different things. And, you know.
Bad Hijabi (57:10.605)
Yeah, we're back to the people using words and not being honest or not using the words that express what they mean, right? We're back to that Orwellian thing.
Lee Weissman (57:16.718)
Right, I mean, you know...
Right, right. You know, I mean, if you mean peace, if what you mean by peace is that you want other people to have, if you want other people to have the same kind of welfare that you want for yourself and the same kind of well -being and safety and health and security and sovereignty that you have for yourself, okay, that's I think a robust idea of peace, but I think most are not walking around with that kind of robust idea of peace. I think most people are walking around with a pretty anemic idea of peace, which is either a kind of grudging cessation of violence or some kind of a surrender.
Bad Hijabi (57:56.845)
Mm -hmm.
Bad Hijabi (58:07.501)
I think it's kind of interesting the whole to go back a while to what something you said before. And the reason why we need to distance ourselves from the bad things that other people do is because we don't want to face the fact that we could do that too. So we need to make people monsters and we need to focus on that thing and we need to make it really terrible and we need to say, hate the wicked,
Lee Weissman (58:26.638)
Yes.
Bad Hijabi (58:34.989)
…because then that means we are not the wicked, right? If that person over there is the wicked, then I am not, right? So like, I think this whole language of describing what happened and needing it to be a pogrom, I mean, what's the different, like, why do we need that to be a pogrom? Like, we've seen so many violent riots and violent protests and things like that. But now we need to use the language. And it's almost like taking things that happened in the past and like.
Lee Weissman (59:10.51)
Right, well, I think that that's also a part of it. I think what people wanted to do was to give it, kind of, to share its emotional impact, right? To share, this is how it felt to us, right? Like my grandmother and the Cossacks, right? This is how it felt to us, right? It felt to us like this because our safe space
Our safe space was invaded.
Bad Hijabi (59:45.453)
And then again, but then again, we have the, okay, so this is not the first real estate seminar that was ever held on North American grounds. Okay, this happened in March. It happened across the continent. It happened in several cities. We have footage. A guy in Thornhill, Ontario was arrested for brandishing a staple gun.
Lee Weissman (59:57.102)
Right.
Lee Weissman (01:00:03.182)
Yes.
Yes.
Bad Hijabi (01:00:13.389)
You know, there were people in Teaneck, New Jersey who publicly said, we don't want this seminar here. You know, it's documented. Okay, so presumably if your job is to organize these seminars, like as, you know, a routine, you probably are aware of the fact that these are not really popular events and you probably would want to plan that for that. You probably would want to put those contingency plans in your strategy, right? So like, if you know that every time you've had this event at a synagogue, people show up and they harass the shit out of the synagogue, maybe don't have the fucking real estate event at the synagogue, okay?
Lee Weissman (01:00:46.094)
Well... Well...
Lee Weissman (01:01:01.23)
Right, well the strategy in this case was to organize a counterprotest and that created a whole set of different...
Bad Hijabi (01:01:13.165)
But we should anticipate all of these things because we know, because that's what has happened in every single thing. The PYM or whoever they are, they're like, look, there's a new real estate thing. We're going to organize a protest. They do that. They've said that that's their policy. You can go and look at all of the student groups. That's what they do. That's the raison d'être, OK? So they are going to do that. Every time you have a real estate seminar, you can expect them to show up.
Lee Weissman (01:01:31.246)
Right, right, right.
Lee Weissman (01:01:39.502)
Yes.
Bad Hijabi (01:01:40.845)
Then, and then, so then is that how it's gonna be? So, okay, they know that's what they're gonna do because some of those kids have a key and they can't ever, you know, whatever, right? So that's their issue. And so then, and then the, then, so then the counter protesters are like, Jews need to arm. We need to protect ourselves. And so this is an, is that like, like what's the solution? Because I don't really think that's working.
Lee Weissman (01:01:51.022)
Well, so this is going to be.
Lee Weissman (01:02:06.99)
Yes, well, I don't know yet. Maybe next week we can talk about the solution. This week we got the problem. Okay, problem.
Bad Hijabi (01:02:10.541)
And I don't like, I don't, sorry, go ahead.
Bad Hijabi (01:02:19.981)
Like I don't think this was the Farhud in LA and I don't think it was a pogrom. And I absolutely, you know, I saw the stuff too. It was horrible. But I really, really think it's really like a form of psychological abuse to show these clips out of context. Like this one clip of these two guys.
Lee Weissman (01:02:25.966)
No, I don't think so either.
Bad Hijabi (01:02:43.661)
One guy has another guy in a headlock and they're on the ground and there's a bunch of people standing around. Everyone's getting excited and there's like some, you know, Hasidic looking guy trying to stop shit and there's like a bunch of people, you know, having like reaction, right? And so it's really disingenuous for people to share that clip and be like, this is a lynching. Like I'm so and yes, and what the hell are you doing filming that shit?
Lee Weissman (01:03:08.43)
And all the people filming. Yeah.
Bad Hijabi (01:03:13.453)
Like, okay, you know, you're like, the Nazis are selling our land. You're like, there's a pogrom. there's a lynching. You know what? You know what I think? I think both sides are full of shit and I don't care anymore. That's what I think. That's the net effect of that. And maybe that's how we could end this is like, my point is, if you're going to keep, if you're going to keep scaring people and making shit up.
Lee Weissman (01:03:13.806)
Yeah.
Lee Weissman (01:03:32.014)
Okay.
Bad Hijabi (01:03:43.469)
It's obviously not true. Nazis are not selling Palestinian land. There's no ethnic cleansing. There's no pogroms. There's no lynching. Okay? None of that stuff happened. But if you want people to pay attention to your cause, you're going to have to describe it like a grownup because people are not going to listen to this bullshit anymore. Everyone's tired. Okay?
Lee Weissman (01:04:04.654)
Or we could just hand out Wicked stickers, that's all.
Bad Hijabi (01:04:06.765)
Yes, let's make a Wicked sticker and just give it to people and just
Lee Weissman (01:04:10.286)
Yeah, exactly. Okay, well, thank you very much.
Bad Hijabi (01:04:13.261)
All right. I'm not sure how that went for you, but.
Lee Weissman (01:04:19.31)
Okay, it was a little ranty, but you know.
Bad Hijabi (01:04:28.581)
Just be just being honest, okay
Lee Weissman (01:04:31.038)
Okay, well thank you very much and I'm off to my Shabbat preparations. I wish everybody a beautiful week and don't do anything I wouldn't do. Get it, …? Always hope. Don't despair. Never despair. Never give up. Okay, it was not a pogrom.
Bad Hijabi (01:04:44.461)
There's always hope. Don't despair. Okay.
It wasn't a pogrom.
Bad Hijabi (01:04:56.525)
But it was terrible. It was very terrible and it shouldn't have happened. All right. Okay, bye.
Lee Weissman (01:05:00.046)
Terrible, not a pogrom. Bye.
Not a Farhud in LA