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Transcript

Making Meaning thru Fear

EPISODE NINE, in which we reframe meaning-making in order to move forward and make room for peaceful coexistence

Nine months have passed since that fateful day.

The events of October 7th, 2023 held up a mirror to Canadians as a collective, enabled us to what we have become as a society. Foreign interference, a corrupt governing regime, the depraved socialist coalition propping up the corrupt regime, money laundering through the non profit system, DEI infested institutions that have normalised hate-craft by calling it anti-racist and decolonisation work have converged to create a volatile atmosphere in which people cannot tolerate differences of opinion and therefore cannot have discussion or build solutions for peaceful coexistence.

This week we began to discuss moving forward, we focussed on the present situation and where we think we feel stuck as a society in moving this conflict between Israel and Palestine, Jew and Muslim, forward. We discussed the effervescence of fear and the incentive to amplify fear and we talked about the way the present day geopolitical events can impact the way people see important historical events.

Lee Weissman's Patreon

Summary :: In this episode, Lee and Roxanne begin to explore the way forward — what’s next, how do we move past the present stuck state? We introduce the topic of skepticism and doubt surrounding historical events, particularly the Holocaust. We talk about the recent poll which suggests a quarter of Canadians believe the Holocaust is exaggerated. We touch on the fact that narratives and geopolitical realities shape people's beliefs and attitudes. We shift the conversation to personal experiences of anti-Semitism and prejudice, highlighting the importance of understanding different perspectives. We emphasize the need to move beyond fear and stereotypes to find solutions and live life fully. Symbols and slogans can often lose their meaning and become empty gestures and it’s important to understand the true meaning behind symbols and slogans and engage in meaningful conversations. The protest-counter protest model is ineffective and does not lead to productive dialogue. War has historically not been an effective solution and often leads to more destruction and suffering. It is important to have access to accurate information and to avoid manipulation by propaganda. Moving forward, it is crucial to have open and respectful conversations to find solutions.

Keywords :: skepticism, doubt, Holocaust, historical events, poll, narratives, geopolitical realities, anti-Semitism, prejudice, different perspectives, fear, stereotypes, solutions, symbols, slogans, meaning, identity, protest, counter protest, war, destruction, suffering, propaganda, conversation, solutions

Takeaways

  • Skepticism and doubt exist regarding historical events, such as the Holocaust.

  • Geopolitical realities and narratives shape people's beliefs and attitudes.

  • Personal experiences can influence one's perspective on prejudice and discrimination.

  • Understanding different perspectives is crucial for finding solutions and moving beyond fear and stereotypes. Symbols and slogans can lose their meaning and become empty gestures.

  • Engaging in meaningful conversations is important to understand the true meaning behind symbols and slogans.

  • The protest-counter protest model is ineffective and does not lead to productive dialogue.

  • War has historically not been an effective solution and often leads to more destruction and suffering.

  • Access to accurate information is crucial to avoid being manipulated by propaganda.

  • Open and respectful conversations are necessary to find solutions.

AI-Generated Titles

  • Personal Experiences and Perspectives on Prejudice

  • Moving Beyond Fear and Stereotypes: Finding Solutions The Failure of War as a Solution

  • The Meaning Behind Symbols and Slogans

Sound Bites

  • "There is an element of skepticism or resentment towards the Holocaust among some younger people."

  • "The narrative of Israel as a safe place for Jews conflicts with the reality of it being the least safe place during certain events."

  • "Living life and not sinking into fears and stories prevents us from finding solutions."

  • "Part of the meaning of symbols is the fact that you're participating in the symbol, right? And has very little to do with the symbol means."

  • "We can create systems of symbols so fast that they become to mean less and less and less and less and less."

  • "Symbols mean different things to different people."

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Discussion of the Poll

02:57 The Influence of Geopolitical Realities and Narratives

06:05 Personal Experiences and Perspectives on Prejudice

09:40 The Complexity of Different Experiences and Societal Profiles

13:02 Moving Beyond Fear and Stereotypes: Finding Solutions

38:14 The Ineffectiveness of the Protest-Counter Protest Model

50:32 The Failure of War as a Solution

54:00 The Importance of Accurate Information

56:00 The Need for Open and Respectful Conversations

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Transcript

Bad Hijabi (00:02.001)

All right, I think here we are.

Lee Weissman (00:07.04)

It always does that and Do you have your things in your ears? I do I do I don't know why it just did that and it's changes my settings here. I'll just mess I'll just mess- this changes solve that problem

Bad Hijabi (00:09.681)

Do you have your things in your ears?

Bad Hijabi (00:26.897)

Okay, I think that's it. All right. All right.

Lee Weissman (00:27.168)

Okay, there we go. That problem is solved. Then we get rid of that. And okay, we are A -okay. Yes.

Bad Hijabi (00:32.753)

Woohoo! So before I pushed record, I had just told you about the latest thing that was published in the National Post today about a poll of young people. So people under the age of 35 were more likely to doubt the official death toll of the Holocaust. So, and the...

The headline is a bit of a manipulative, I think. It says, one quarter of Canadians believe the Holocaust is exaggerated. So anyway, just before I pressed record, I shared that with you. And we both don't understand really where that's coming from.

I mean, I'll just say, like, I think that there is an element of, you know, the under 35 crowd or the under 40 crowd that is a bit, you know, doubtful or resentful or, you know, not I wouldn't exactly say Holocaust denial because I think that's like inflammatory, but, you know, they're skeptical or something. Right. But this headline, one quarter of Canadians believe the Holocaust is exaggerated. I'm sorry. Like, like I see that.

I don't know if I told you, somebody who was a CIA guy who worked for the Bush administration and stuff said, if something like makes you, like if something gives you like an intense emotional reaction, it's probably designed for that. You know what I'm saying? So like, I don't even like, I don't like, that's one of the problems is that like this kind of stuff, like.

Like, I'm sure that this is a concern, but I don't exactly know if 25 % of Canadians believe that the Holocaust is exaggerated. Do you know what I'm saying?

Lee Weissman (02:28.128)

Right, right, right, right. You know, they say 95 % of all statistics are made up, you know, so including that one. But I mean, I don't know whether the statistics are true or not. It is interesting, it is interesting how geopolitical realities kind of change people's, you know, as your kind of narrative grows, right, you have to, you know, the narrative kind of grows from the top down, you know, and so you kind of start out with the realities on the ground and then you kind of build up the history beneath it in order to justify whatever your narrative is. And I guess that makes sense, right? Because if you're trying to say, okay, well, this is, you know, that Israel isn't kind of an illegitimate, you know, settler colonial European project and has really little to do with the Holocaust, then the less you can make of the Holocaust, the better in terms of that argument. I guess that's probably where it kind of comes from.

Bad Hijabi (02:38.225)

Exactly. Yeah.

Bad Hijabi (02:55.523)

Mm -hmm.

Bad Hijabi (03:08.113)

Yeah.

Bad Hijabi (03:42.289)

I think that you're probably right because given your story that you have talked about and stuff, you know, like you did say that that is a and that that I mean, that's not just using that like this, like, you know, collect the collective oral history or whatever says that the Holocaust was a really like important event. And like it is sort of connected to the state of Israel. And now, this time, like the IDF and you know, this is like the narrative, right? Like now Israel is here. So now this is never going to happen again and stuff like that. Right. So, you know, I imagine that one of the things, you know, in order to delegitimize, you know, Israel and all the stuff that's happening is like that. Like, what else do you do? Right. That's like a powerful event that affected the whole world. So, I mean, if you want to try to like, you know, if you want to try to shake something up, I guess that's like the thing that you attack.

Lee Weissman (04:38.112)

Yeah, I think, right, I think that that's, I think in this, especially in this case, right, in this case where, you know, the first kind of take on October 7th is that this is the worst attack on Jews since the Holocaust. Okay, so that was the kind of narrative take immediately. And...

Bad Hijabi (04:38.129)

I don't like it's, you know.

Bad Hijabi (04:56.849)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Bad Hijabi (05:05.105)

Yep.

Lee Weissman (05:07.296)

You know, and for Israelis, you know, and once again, I don't speak for Israelis, I'm not Israeli, but I certainly have a lot of Israeli friends, family. I think for Israelis, Israel is certainly seen, okay, whatever, certainly seen as the safe place for Jews, right? And in that moment, and at that moment, it was the least safe place for Jews.

Bad Hijabi (05:14.737)

Sure. Sure.

Bad Hijabi (05:23.857)

Mm -hmm.

Bad Hijabi (05:29.937)

Yes.

Lee Weissman (05:36.544)

And that kind of violates the entire purpose. Because for most Israelis, I'm sorry to say, most Israelis do not at least consciously see Israel as a European colonial settler enterprise. They see it as the building of a safe place for Jewish people who have not been safe in other places.

Bad Hijabi (06:05.073)

Like, and I just, yeah, I think anyone who's familiar with the history would see it that way. And anyone who is aware enough of like, wow, like there's not like, Jews are not just like this Ashkenazi project in like Europe. There's like, there's Jewish people in like the Middle East. There's like the whole like, you know, like, like there's a lot of ignorance.

Lee Weissman (06:06.048)

That's really the narrative.

Bad Hijabi (06:28.913)

And I don't know there and there has been to be very honest, there's been efforts made to shape certain narratives. I'm not going to like, you know, attribute that to anyone, but there has been, you know, an effort made to shape a narrative. And so, you know, yeah, like, knowledge is for cutting, right. And but yeah, I mean, this whole notion that like, Israel's like a satellite state, a European satellite state, in the Middle East, I think of lame come on.

Lee Weissman (06:29.216)

Well, I mean...

Lee Weissman (06:45.984)

Yeah.

Lee Weissman (06:56.576)

Right, well, I think there's, I think there is some truth to that. Once again, there's always, there is some truth to that. In a sense, the United States sort of supported Israel as the kind of lone Western democracy in the Middle East, and that language is used. And...

Bad Hijabi (07:07.377)

Yeah, now there is. Yeah.

Bad Hijabi (07:21.073)

Yes. And now do we do have, it's not safe in North America, I need to run away to Israel, you know, kind of a thing, right? So, you know.

Lee Weissman (07:28.544)

Right, or worse, we see what's happening now in France. France has the largest Jewish community in Europe and French Jews are leaving in droves because of, not only were they facing issues with their fellow North Africans, I say fellow North Africans because most Jews in France are North Africans, right? Coming from the very same places, from people, you know, it's kind of sharing substantially the same culture as the people, as people who give them problems. But now, you know, with the, but now with the new right -wing government coming to power, hopefully not, but still, you know, getting close, you know, French Jews are figuring there's no future in France, where are they gonna go, right? So.

Bad Hijabi (07:41.745)

Yeah.

Bad Hijabi (07:51.505)

Yes.

Bad Hijabi (07:57.233)

Yeah.

Bad Hijabi (08:07.377)

It's very complicated, yes, yeah.

Lee Weissman (08:26.72)

—that they're going to Israel. Ironically, the kind of main French city in Israel is about four miles from the Gaza border, Ashdod. It's right on the coast, it's right near Gaza.

Bad Hijabi (08:27.377)

Yeah.

Bad Hijabi (08:43.121)

You see, when I think about France like I see genuinely okay that is genuinely like a situation where like you know that's a valid that's a valid refugee claim like if you're saying okay like it's not safe you know I need to go somewhere where it's safe if you're a Jewish person like that's like I say I think if you're a Jew living in France I think you have a valid claim to go like to make Aliyah to go to Israel.

But if you live in Canada or the United States, I think you need to... I don't want to swear. So I'm just going to be like, I think you need to like pull your head from your ass and like think about where you live. Okay. Because like I see what's happening in France. That's it's terrible. Okay. Like, and it's like, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's just didn't happen overnight. It's been a long time and it's very complicated. And there's...the whole Moroccan thing and all that stuff. But that's not like what's happening in the States or Canada. It's not great. But I don't think it's the same level of like...

Lee Weissman (09:54.304)

No, I understand, you know, I understand that people clearly have vastly different experiences. I can't speak to anybody else's experience. You know, I grew up, you know, I grew up in America. I grew up in Philadelphia. I grew up with real old fashioned anti -Semitism. I grew up with the old, with the good old fashioned anti -Semitism. I grew up near an Irish Catholic neighbourhood.

Bad Hijabi (10:05.265)

Yes.

Bad Hijabi (10:15.249)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Bad Hijabi (10:19.953)

Yeah, me too, yeah.

Bad Hijabi (10:24.145)

Yeah.

Lee Weissman (10:24.224)

And we were Christ killers and they would beat us up. And that was, you know, that was, it was very straightforward. And now, you know, I don't live on a college campus, you know, I don't, I don't live in a college campus. I live in Washington. I live in Washington, DC, which kind of an international city. And I don't, I don't have, I have not had a lot of the experiences that other people report.

Bad Hijabi (10:27.537)

Yep. Yep.

Lee Weissman (10:53.888)

I went to Fourth of July celebration in Washington, D .C. and I went to the parade and I went to the fireworks and I was with, I don't know, thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of Americans and I'm wearing a kippah and a beard and I look like an extra fiddle on the roof and—

Bad Hijabi (11:17.489)

You look like an extra from Fiddler on the Roof. You look like the most Jewish person ever.

Lee Weissman (11:23.616)

Right, most Jewish person ever. And I wasn't wearing my striped shirt that day, I was wearing a white shirt, so I was looking even more Jewish.

Bad Hijabi (11:30.002)

You've reported and you've posted on your things about going to like Arabic places and hanging out with Muslims and you know.

Lee Weissman (11:35.136)

All right, right. And I went to the coffee shop during Ramadan with hundreds of people. Nobody said anything to me.

Bad Hijabi (11:45.361)

And you've had, I thought you had like your Moroccan thing when it was Ramadan and you've had like a whole celebration and you hang out with Muslims and like you hang out, you have Muslim friends and like, you know, I've never, I mean, not that, you know, I just because I didn't see it doesn't happen, but like you put yourself out there a lot and you've like been like, no, like if anyone can Google you and see. So when you're presumably like, you know, somebody who has got, you know, known.

Lee Weissman (11:55.36)

Yes.

Lee Weissman (12:08.768)

Right.

Bad Hijabi (12:14.193)

—like might be more of a target, might, you know, but like, you don't seem to have that those kinds of experiences. So you're right. Like, and so not that you're a representative of everyone, but you like, it's really important. Yeah. And so I like, I've, I think it's really important to for people to realize somebody like you, who's like, okay, your name is Jihadi Jew. You have like people calling you also.

Lee Weissman (12:21.888)

Yeah, I don't. Right. I'm not saying people don't. I'm sure they do. And I'm sure they do, but I don't mostly have those experiences.

Bad Hijabi (12:40.561)

Accusing you of being all sorts of things on Facebook or you know tick I don't even see the tick -tock stuff I've not even gone there, but I'm sure if I went there it would be like whole adventure So but like you will are just living your life. You're just some guy who's just you know You look like you're Jewish and you just go and you live your life and you're not like, you know You're not walking around with this big cloud over your head But maybe that's just because you see the world differently. Maybe that's how you walk

Lee Weissman (12:44.8)

Everything.

Lee Weissman (13:02.208)

Yeah, I mean, I -

No.

Bad Hijabi (13:09.137)

through the world too. I think that's part of it.

Lee Weissman (13:11.552)

Right, but truthfully, if I were wearing an Israeli flag as a cape, I think obviously I would be getting different reactions. And I think that there's a difference between walking in the street looking Jewish and walking in the street and looking like a, doing the job of pro -Israel supporter, that's—

Bad Hijabi (13:21.425)

Yeah.

Bad Hijabi (13:38.065)

—like looking like a nationalist. Yeah.

Lee Weissman (13:40.)

Right. That's a different thing. Although I understand that some places like New York and so on, it's just, it's, you know, it is like that. I mean, you know, Hasidic people who have absolutely no interest in politics, nationalist politics at all, you know, are attacked and, you know, that does happen. And, but—

Bad Hijabi (13:55.793)

Yep.

Bad Hijabi (14:02.705)

Yeah.

Lee Weissman (14:09.408)

Yes, things here are not like they are in France.

Bad Hijabi (14:15.057)

But we don't have the same kind of profile. Like, again, you know, they have like a whole, you know, the Algerian situation and all of that, you know, stuff, right? They have like a whole different like societal profile and like a whole type of behaviour profile that like we don't have, you know, in France, I mean. So obviously, they're going to have like a different, you know, a different struggles and stuff, right?

Lee Weissman (14:39.392)

Yeah, it's a very different situation. Right, the dynamic is very different.

Bad Hijabi (14:47.473)

There's a lot of stuff roiling under their surface. My late ex -husband was a UN brat. And so he spent some time when he was like nine or 10 in Algeria because his dad had to work there. So he was this young, like Swiss boy who like looks like he was French going to school. And like that was at the height of the like just after the Algerian Civil War and he told me some things, you know, he was like, I got shot at because they thought it was like this little French kid and like he, you know, he's tal- talk, remembered a bit about like the, like the anger and like the violence, you know, the violence and just like, just like, you know, being some kid from Switzerland and just being taken, you know, his parents thought that that was a good thing anyway, whatever. Like, and he like, we not never heard those stories. I didn't learn that history and that like all of that stuff doesn't go away.

And if those people, you know, sought, you know, if they settled in France or whatever, all of that stuff, now that's part of French society. And the whole thing with the skulls in the museum, and I'm sure you heard all about that, right? Like, there's a lot of stuff that doesn't go away because time passed. Like, it stays in, like, in families. And it's like, you know, intergenerational trauma isn't genetically transmitted. It's—

It's attachment transmitted. It's passed down to families. It's passed down through processes like this where people don't mend their wounds and stuff. And now this is the result. So I don't know. This is long-winded. This isn't exactly what I wanted to talk about. But I think this is part of unpacking all of this stuff is part of acknowledging that people have different experiences. And we don't all just need to push the fear button.

I think, I don't know, I think we're running away from solutions, you know?

Lee Weissman (16:35.616)

Yeah, yeah, so I think what happens, so I think that the danger is that we kind of, when we kind of sink into, when we kind of sink into our fears, when we sink into our stories, you know, that it prevents us from coming to solutions. Also, it also prevents us from living life. As I said, I mentioned that I grew up in a, you know, I went to school in an Irish Catholic neighbourhood, right? And got beat up and all that stuff. And for years, I just could not deal with Christians. I mean, I just couldn't. I was like traumatized. And when I was in California, I got involved—

Bad Hijabi (17:10.577)

Mm -hmm. Sure.

Bad Hijabi (17:19.857)

I don't doubt it.

Lee Weissman (17:26.208)

—with the Catholic Worker movement. They had a homeless shelter and I started to work there. I started to work at the Catholic Worker. I was the only Jewish guy who ever became a Catholic Worker, I'm thinking. But in any case, so I was involved with the Catholic Worker movement.

And first it started, you know, we're just feeding the feeding homeless people hanging out with the homeless people then I sort of became like the rabbi to the homeless which was which was sort of fun and It's nobody, you know one is I'm not I'm not a rabbi and second and and second, you know There's no better group of people than homeless people. They don't care that I'm not a rabbi They just you know, whatever you're a rabbi good enough But they were they're very sweet. Yeah, look like a Rabbi. You're good enough, but—

Bad Hijabi (18:16.273)

Mm -hmm. You look like one. There, you're hired.

Lee Weissman (18:21.056)

They're very, and then we started to have a weekly Bible study and they became really my closest friends and family. And I realized that a lot of my prejudices, a lot of the prejudices I've been carrying around were really just based on the experience of a time and a place.

They were based on a time and a place and situation. And I really could have missed out on what turned out to be great experiences. I mean, that was really, shout out to the Smiths. It was really one of the greatest experiences I've ever had in my life.

Bad Hijabi (18:51.025)

Seeing things through the lens of your own experience is what caused you to do that.

Lee Weissman (19:16.8)

It was transformational in so many ways and I would have missed out on that.

Bad Hijabi (19:22.225)

I've told you before that, you know, I grew up Catholic, that's no secret everyone knows that. But I've said before that like when I was growing up, I really felt like a lot, like I felt a lot of doubt, like.

You know, whole pinnacle of Catholicism is like, you know, the whole story of the crucifixion and all that stuff, right? That story and whatever, right? So that's like the biggest like thing in the Catholic world is that like that is the biggest hal— like religious holiday. So it's like it was a really big deal. But I used to sit through all of that stuff, you know, the passion of Christ and just be like, this doesn't make any sense to me. I don't really understand why. Like, and I can feel that there's like, all of this story wants me to feel a certain thing. It wants me to feel resentful, you know, the whole thing about the Jews and all that stuff, right? The whole story, right?

What's really interesting about that is then, you know, many years later, James David Audlin, who you know who's on Facebook, who is like a scholar, he's like translating the Gospel of John right now. And he like, he posts these things about religion and stuff. And he posted this thing about that. Like, this was like a couple of years ago. And like, it was so like, wow. Like, and he said, you know, that whole stuff, you know, the whole thing about, you know, the narrative of Jesus and the whole story of Jesus and that. And that was his opinion as somebody, you know, was translating and working and stuff.

And so like the whole point of being like, you know, sometimes some of these stories that religious organizations or institutions make up, you know, has like a purpose and there it's not a secret that, you know, Catholicism, you know, started out or like a lot of it was like, you know, creating a resentment against the Jews, right? I mean, as somebody who grew up a Catholic, I really felt like that's what that was trying to, there was a lot of like, an effort kind of trying to be made to like, you know, blame the Jews and stuff, even though Vatican II apparently said, you know, that's not what we were supposed to do anymore. And so we started to move away from that. But I do remember being young and feeling like that was definitely something that was trying to be like they were trying to create that resentment.

Like, and I remember just it not making sense. And I always remember just this, when the Jews said this and the Jews and like the whole story of listening, sitting through church and listening to like, you know, the whole thing being played out. Cause that's one of the things that I just remember. It's just like, I just remember just feeling and never, I never said anything to anyone. I just remember like always like not entirely buying it, this whole Jesus thing and stuff. And I don't know why, like, I don't know.

I can't explain, no one said, hey, that's not true, but—

Lee Weissman (22:10.688)

Well, if you don't buy the Jesus thing and stuff, that would make it very difficult. But, but—

Bad Hijabi (22:15.121)

And then, yeah, like, and I, because my mother was teaching me about the Holocaust and saying, okay, because my mom was born in 1931 in like St. Boniface, Manitoba, remembers, you know, the women trading ration coupons and remembers like the news and, you know, stuff like that. And then remember seeing the images of like, you know, the end of the war and stuff, right? So, you know, she was by that when, you know, she was like 14 or something. So her whole like,

her whole rest of her life was trying to understand what happened and how could you be alive and not know that like six million people were like sent to their death, right? That's basically what my mom's thing was. So I don't know what was going on for my mom. She was a Catholic and whatever. So like, I just remember being caught in that. Okay, my mother was Catholic, but my mother was like shunned from her community because of the things that happened to her, but she still believed in God. and over here we have this whole story of the Jewish

problem, which deeply affected the Catholic world. Maybe there's different factions of the Catholic community. So there's the French Catholics, and then there's the Irish Catholics, and maybe there's that. So I don't remember growing up hearing a lot about you should hate Jews and stuff like that. I'm sure that that was a thing. But my community was fairly homogeneous. We were the French enclave or whatever.

things are so much different now than they are then. Like that was a real time of racism. That was a time when like gay men would literally get lynched. Like that's not the wrong word to use for it, you know, stuff like that, right? Like it was truly different than now.

Lee Weissman (23:54.208)

Right, right. So it's a very different time. Vatican II was new and controversial and was not sinking in very quickly, at least in the Catholic Church. And beyond that, it was civil rights, the beginning of the civil rights movement, just the beginning of the civil rights movement, or at least the beginning of the real kind of, you know, surge of the civil rights movement, which created a, which also created a little bit of a backlash also. And, yeah, yeah, this was, that was—

Bad Hijabi (24:33.681)

Like intermarriages were just becoming big. Like my parent, my mother was white and my dad was Indian. Are you kidding? My mom had to go looking for apartments by herself. She couldn't like, she know and she and stuff like that. Right. Like, like all of these, like, like it's helpful to talk about this because like today when you're like, everyone's racist. Well, I don't even know what you're talking about. Like, you know.

Lee Weissman (24:43.904)

Right, right. I mean...

Lee Weissman (24:51.968)

Yeah.

Lee Weissman (24:57.024)

I remember going to Florida as a kid. I was going to Florida as a kid and staying in a hotel. And I said to my father, I said, everybody in this hotel is Jewish. I said, everybody in this hotel is Jewish. It's really weird. And I said, it wasn't a kosher hotel. It was just a regular hotel. And I imagine anybody who's been to, I think it was Fort Lauderdale, would immediately recognize the Hotel of the Fountain Blue. And he said, well, because none of the other hotels let Jews in. So it's like, that was the, you know, I was like, what? I totally had no, like, that was not a reality for me. I mean, and, you know, but that was, you know, all the Jews stayed in one hotel because that's the hotel you could stay in, you know, and they wouldn't hassle you.

Bad Hijabi (25:52.337)

Yeah. And that maybe that's part of the thing in Winnipeg too. I grew up in Winnipeg. We had like, you know, it was called Tuxedo. The neighbourhood was called Tuxedo. So that was like, you know, the more wealthier neighbourhood, whatever. And so that would probably be if you drove, if you like to spend, you know, time before Christmas driving through neighbourhoods looking for Christmas lights, probably Tuxedo was not the neighbourhood you were going to drive through to look for Christmas lights. And probably there's going to be lots and lots of Chinese food happening in that neighbourhood, right? So, you know, like back in those days, like there was a lot of like people just living in their little areas and stuff like that. And, you know, like I don't know that young people who think that that was an exaggeration and think everything is racist and think everyone's trying to kill them and stuff.

Lee Weissman (26:23.488)

Yeah.

Lee Weissman (26:33.184)

Yeah, I mean...

Bad Hijabi (26:43.537)

Like, I don't know what world they're living in. And it's really sad. I don't know if like education has failed them or like the internet is giving them brain worms or like a combination of things. But or like where that, you know, poll was taken or like what, how the questions were structured. I mean, there's all sorts of things like that too. The way people ask you questions is determines how you're going to answer it.

You know, maybe this is like, I don't know anything about this, who did the poll, maybe like they are, this is like trying to create this narrative, because there's a that, there's also an element of trying to create this fear. it's not safe for Jews, you know, there was a Farhud in LA, or there was a pogrom in LA, and you know, the encampment at the University of Toronto has now been taken down, but every big red triangles.

I don't know if you hear this thing about the red triangles in the States and the red triangle and the, the red triangle means, it's apparently it's supposed to be like the inverted red triangle and it means like Hamas and it means like, you know, it's like a terrorist thing, whatever. And so these kids who go to the encampment and they're like free Palestine and whatever, and they have these red triangles, you know, the signs of these red triangles, right? And so there's this whole narrative that I'm supposed to believe that all of these kids,

Lee Weissman (27:40.48)

What's the red triangle?

Bad Hijabi (28:04.401)

—who are like Marxists basically, who are just being kids, right? And they got caught in this effervescence and they're like, this is, I'm supposed to believe that every single kid who was at that or whoever they are, whatever revolutionary, whatever person, socialist that showed up at these encampments that's like promoting this red triangle thing is like promoting like mass murder that they're terrorists.

Like, I don't think so. And there's like a whole thing I just, cause I was curious yesterday about these like badge of shame. And there's like a whole thing about, I don't have to tell you or anyone listening probably. There's like, like, like a whole color system of like, you know, triangles. There was like the purple triangle for like the Jehovah witnesses. There was like the brat blood for the Nazi in era. There was a black triangles for the mentally ill and the alcoholics and stuff and the lesbians and stuff like that. There was like,

You know, the pink triangles with gay people and there was red triangles was for the dissidents and for political prisoners and stuff, right? So like, you know, there is a definite movement to try to make people feel like everything is racist and it's horrible and it's hateful and it's dangerous and it's unsafe. And so maybe these red triangles at the encampment, maybe they do, maybe they are pro -Hamas.

But you know, maybe they're just like people trying to like, you know, gang signal or something. You know what I mean? Like participate in like a social movement and maybe not everyone is a mass murderer all the time.

Lee Weissman (29:43.168)

Yeah, I -

You know, my background is sort of in South Asian studies and anthropology, right? And when it comes to symbols, you have to be really careful about symbols because symbols, you know,

Bad Hijabi (29:55.472)

Mm -hmm.

Lee Weissman (30:09.216)

Part of the meaning of symbols is the fact that you're participating in the symbol, right? And has very little to do with the symbol means. I mean, like, okay, let's take, let me go closer to home. A Jewish star, right? Two, you know, two equilateral triangles, you know, one on top of the other. One of, you know, like that. Is there a meaning to it?

Bad Hijabi (30:14.321)

Exactly.

Bad Hijabi (30:22.193)

Yeah.

Lee Weissman (30:38.272)

Maybe, right? But mostly it's just a sign, mostly it's just a, it's an identity marker, right? It's an identity marker. And people who wear it don't necessarily have much idea about what constitutes that identity. All they know is that they want that identity. And I think that once we invented memes, once we've now—

Bad Hijabi (30:56.081)

Exactly.

Lee Weissman (31:04.128)

now created, we can create systems of symbols so fast that they become to mean less and less and less and less and less. And I see this with the proliferation, especially with the past year, the proliferation of slogans, you know, Free Palestine. I would love to sit down with everybody who has a poster that says Free Palestine and ask them, okay, so what does that mean to you? Like what do you envision?

Bad Hijabi (31:19.985)

Mm -hmm.

Bad Hijabi (31:30.833)

Yes, yes, I sometimes have started saying to people, what are you freeing? What's that going on for you?

Lee Weissman (31:33.824)

Just tell me, I'm not challenging you. I'm not challenging you. I just want to know what you're thinking. What does that mean? Because if I have a dog in a cage and I say, and his name is Fluffy, I say free Fluffy. I know what that means. It means I should open the door, right? I should open the door and I should let Fluffy out and he can go live his life. Is that, is—

Bad Hijabi (31:44.081)

Yeah, yeah.

Lee Weissman (32:03.68)

I understand that, but I don't think that's like this. So, so.

Bad Hijabi (32:07.057)

Exactly. That's what I mean when I say like I want to know like what are you freeing like what like what do you mean when you say free Palestine? Like I don't know what that means. It sounds really great and it sounds like you know, it gets everyone excited But I don't understand. Can you like can you explain it to me? Like and I'm not being a smartass and I'm not trying to change anyway I don't understand. I don't know. What are you freeing? What it would like what what?

Lee Weissman (32:24.864)

Yeah, I just, right. I want to know what you and I want you, I want to know, I want to understand what that, what, you know, I understand what that means and how it.

Bad Hijabi (32:33.873)

Exactly. And you know what? And in having to explain that, in having to explain what they mean by free Palestine, in some cases, like that already is the beginning of a thought process for them, which is why they don't want, sometimes they don't want to do it because then it's thinking, right?

Lee Weissman (32:57.184)

And listen, I'm prepared to be impressed. I mean, I'm prepared to be impressed. I mean, that is like, my hope is not, I'm not trying, my hope is not to stump anybody. I mean, I don't want to stump anybody.

Bad Hijabi (33:04.657)

Yeah.

Bad Hijabi (33:11.313)

No, but I do see that, but I do see the process and I see what you said before about, you know, the LA riots and people having going and taking shit from stores and then being stopped and being like, so what's happening for you? What's going on? And being like, I don't know. Like, I know that that's the thing. Okay. Like, cause I myself have got caught up in that. And, but then, you know, I have enough of a—

Lee Weissman (33:28.032)

Right.

Bad Hijabi (33:35.409)

—like, you know, I don't have brain worms and I'm, you know, enough of a Rufusnik in every way that I can eventually some but something will someone will say something and I'll be like, yes, wait a minute. But I'm not like I'm not afraid to be like, okay, that was really dumb. But you know, right? I'm not afraid to be like, okay, yeah, I thought that that was not the right thing to think and like move on and not make a thing about it. Right. But some people are really attached to their, their thoughts that they have, right? So like, I see that that's like a thing too. And like, there's not enough being like of genuine curiosity. I think that's what you're saying. Like to just be curious, to like be, and that's one of the things that was in your lesson. I think that was your lesson. I read a few lessons about 10 ways to agree, to disagree, how to have a conflict. And like, one of them is not to listen with the view to like, there's a weakness.

Lee Weissman (34:23.584)

Yes.

Bad Hijabi (34:31.057)

Like with listening to like, this is how they taught us in nursing. Like we had to learn about how to listen and like maybe in teaching, you didn't take anyways, when you learn how to look after people, you have to learn how to listen. So listening to somebody to try to understand where they're coming from is different than listening to somebody to try to like dismantle their argument. So I feel like we need different.

Like, there's a different level of listening and to be able to listen to the person and let them finish the thought that you already know you disagree with and not be like, you're wrong, you're whatever. And just like, let that go and have a discussion. I think like we really like, if we could just do that, if we could just be like, free Palestine Okay. What do you mean by that? And like, be able to stop and have a discussion with that, right? I don't know.

Lee Weissman (35:24.448)

Yeah, I, you know, years ago, I was on my way to synagogue and this guy rides by on a bicycle and he yells at me, Free Palestine. And I kept thinking, I kept, it really bothered me because it was like, okay, first of all, if that was a command, okay, if that was a command, I don't know what he was commanding. I was supposed to pick up the phone, right, and call up.

I don't know who, right? They're supposed to call up, hey, you know, listen, free, right, right, right, right, put me in favor now, could you, you know, just a little thing for me, just free Palestine. And he would say, what do you mean by that? I don't know. And I couldn't even turn to the guy and ask him, I said, what would you like exactly? You know, I got him on the phone, what can I do?

Bad Hijabi (35:53.233)

Call Bibi and say, hey buddy, what the hell's going on? Hey Bibi remember that time we played pool in my basement million years ago? Can you like pull me a favor now? Yeah.

Lee Weissman (36:21.472)

There was no engagement at all because the point was that seeing me just inspired this moment of having to say this. It just felt to him like that would be liberating.

Bad Hijabi (36:38.193)

So that was a window into his mentation more than anything about you though, right? And so, you know, exactly.

Lee Weissman (36:48.224)

Well, yeah, because I mean, he doesn't know me. He doesn't know me, you know. And, you know, it's ironic that I get this stuff because I'm not the person, you know. I mean, I have never been nominated for Zionist poster boy.

Bad Hijabi (37:01.489)

I know, I know.

I'm sorry. I just have to laugh. It's just so funny. It's like a kids in the hall skit or something

Bad Hijabi (37:17.457)

I mean, you got like you got kicked out of Hebrew school and you won the Peace Award like at the same time. Like, can we like remember that? Really? That's that's basically who you are, dude. You're like that person who was like, I'm Jihadi Jew. You're evil. You're a menace. And you're like, OK, well, do you know how many kids I've saved from ISIS? But anyway, have a nice day. Right.

Lee Weissman (37:18.24)

So

Lee Weissman (37:23.488)

Yes, yes, at the same time, yes. Yes, yes.

Yes, I did.

Yes, I got it.

Lee Weissman (37:39.904)

Right, but it's amazing. I get it from both sides. In any case, it is a weird thing, but I would...

Bad Hijabi (37:44.209)

That's why I love you so much.

Lee Weissman (37:55.392)

Now, those kinds of symbols, whether it's the triangles and this and that, they do mean something. But after a while, I think they stop meaning a lot. I think one of my favourites is people saying, yeah.

Bad Hijabi (38:07.249)

Let me just read something. Let me just read. OK, let me just read something to you quickly before you continue. OK, so this is from Warren Kinsella. He's a lawyer who is a political person. He's worked in political for politicians and stuff, running campaigns. And he's got a column in the Toronto Sun.

Lee Weissman (38:14.496)

Yeah, you know, may I go on?

Bad Hijabi (38:35.025)

So he wrote this thing about after the Toronto U of T encampment. So there was an injunction. So all his stuff went through a court. So he's like, last week before the judge gave the infant fada, the hook, this writer took a stroll around the perimeter of the U of T encampment, a documentary camera crew in tow. Everywhere we looked there were signs and symbols saying things that seemed benign but weren't. Here's a summary. The inverted red triangle. Some of the aspiring Gazans may believe the triangle has something to do with the Palestinian flag or a wedge of watermelon, but it doesn't. Online the inverted red triangle indicates support for Hamas. Full stop. Elsewhere, meanwhile, the red triangle means this. We will kill you. So it goes on like that. And that, I just read you that clip because like,

You know, words carry weight. And people, you know, I love Warren. He's great. Warren, I love you. But and to an extent, maybe that's true. But, you know, like you said, symbols mean different things to different people. And when you start to look at them and analyze them like that, then you sort of are participating in the symbology, you know, thing, right?

So like, I don't know, does the red triangle really mean that? Like, are all of these kids who are at these encampments, are they really like joining Hamas? And do they really like want to kill us? Like, I have a hard time believing that. I think they got caught up in some kind of movement and they don't know how to get out of it. I don't know.

Lee Weissman (40:12.544)

I don't know if there's anything I don't get about it, but I don't, I, listen, I think, I'm gonna get into so much trouble for this. I, no, I don't get it. Every time I say something like this, I know I get like, okay, I was a young person, okay? I was a young person. I went to college in Washington, DC, and I was part of a lot of protests. And I also lived in an encampment, okay? I'm telling you, okay? I'm sorry, friends, okay? I lived in an encampment.

It was called Reaganville. It was across the street from the White House. You can read about it. You can Google it if you want to. Or you can go across the street from the White House and you can see there's still one tent there in memory of it. You can see the sign that I helped made that said wanted wisdom and honesty. You can still see that sign there. Right across the street.

Bad Hijabi (41:05.969)

Wisdom and honesty are so wanted by the way.

Lee Weissman (41:08.608)

Yes, still wanted, yes, still wanted and still on the run. Still fugitives. But, and did I always understand every issue that I was protesting about? No, I did not. But I believed in justice. Do I understand what justice was? Did I really understand like everything there was to know about the governments of El Salvador? No.

Did I understand everything about the government of Chile when I was protesting about Chile? No, I did not. Did I understand everything there was to know about all the weapons that I was protesting? No, there wasn't. Did I understand the neutron bomb? No. Did I understand the MX missile? No. Did I understand? No, I didn't understand any of it. But nevertheless, I had this

youthful belief in justice and good and I just kind of used that energy in all sorts of ways and places. And whether or not it was, whether I was right or not, I don't know.

Bad Hijabi (42:20.177)

And the other thing is that something that Yonatan Zeigen I don't know if you know who that is, that's Vivian Silver's son. Vivian Silver was a, do you know who that is? Okay, so her son is Yonatan Zeigen. And he's like, I don't even talk to the, I usually don't talk to Israeli media about my mom because.

Lee Weissman (42:30.831)

yes, I know who that is.

Bad Hijabi (42:42.801)

They don't have many flattering things to say about her. And he's like, to be very honest, I think that the solutions are going to come from outside of Israel. And so where I'm going with this is like, we are aware in North America that we do have like an enormous voice. And so like we do have a lot of power collectively. Like that's not that's not that's just undeniable. Right. We do. And so we are aware of it.

We don't always use it properly. And I think that that's kind of what is happening. We are aware that we have powerful voice and that we can change things and that we have almost a responsibility because we don't live. I don't have, like I've said this before, I don't have a safe room in my house. I've never in my life lived anywhere where there's bombs flying overhead and I have to rescue my everything. Where's my cat? And I have to like—

Lee Weissman (43:22.368)

Yes.

Bad Hijabi (43:40.273)

I never had that in my life, okay? My little world view of like living with like violent men and having to be stalked and you know, fearing that someone's gonna take me and try to kill me. So that's not a comparison to living in a war zone or living, you know, in a place where everyone hates me and stuff, okay? So I get that. And we know that. And like, so we have a responsibility.

And I think that's that we're trying to discharge this responsibility, but sometimes like the leadership doesn't always guide us in the right direction. So I think you're right. Like I remember after October the seventh, I believe some really stupid shit and I've said it before. Like I fell down that hole and I fell into the whole effervescence and I saw the videos and I, you know, were saying the things that I thought were like the just things to say. And then as time passes that you realize, you get more information and you change your mind.

So I don't know that we need to be like, I think we need to remember this is an ongoing conversation, you know, and do we want to have a conversation? Because if we do, then we should stop calling people Nazis. We should stop being like free Palestine. And we should say what we mean. Like, what do you mean? Not you specifically, but whoever. What do you mean by free Palestine? Say it, like say whatever is on your mind. I'll listen. But if you just are going around like, lobbing these like things that people like these emotional bombs at people like then I don't know you know

Lee Weissman (45:13.92)

Yeah, okay, I'm gonna get in trouble again now. I'm gonna get in trouble again. I think it's good. I think, okay. I think it's, I can just hear people listening to this and I can hear their brains. I think that young people feel a sense of responsibility. I don't like the idea that young people should be just kind of going on spring break and and getting drunk till they black out. I think it's good that young people are concerned. Whether young people are concerned and that they see themselves as having power and they recognize that they have a vote, they recognize they have a voice. Because we did create these democracies, right? We did create these democracies with that in mind. We wanted people to feel that empowerment and they do.

Bad Hijabi (45:48.017)

Mm -hmm.

Bad Hijabi (46:04.593)

Mm -hmm.

Bad Hijabi (46:08.753)

Yeah.

Lee Weissman (46:13.088)

Now, it doesn't mean we always have to like everything that they say, but I would, but I think I would like it to go, as you say, beyond the level of bumper stickers, beyond the level of slogans, and beyond the level of zingers. And I think that part of that is what I would call advertising culture. We've sort of learned that all you have to do is get the message out, right? And the message has to be, you know, is built for short attention spans. And so if we just yell intifada, intifada, intifada, intifada, right? That somehow or another, that somehow or another makes the point across that we are really pissed off and really upset. Of course, the other side here is intifada, intifada, intifada as we want to kill you, want to kill you, want to kill you, want to kill you, right? Now, if you know that, okay, if you know that, me personally,

Bad Hijabi (46:43.857)

Mm -hmm.

Bad Hijabi (47:05.713)

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Lee Weissman (47:11.84)

Okay, I would give that second thoughts. Like I would say, I would think to myself, yeah, that's probably not the thing to be chanting because the message that I think I'm sending is not the message being received and simple.

Bad Hijabi (47:30.353)

It's like you said to me about telling that person, the student leader, whoever he was, explaining to him that if he wanted to be heard, that he should stop calling Jewish people Nazis or something like that. It's like you said that, right? Like, do you want to be heard and take it seriously or do you like?

Lee Weissman (47:43.488)

Yeah, I mean, I said, you know.

Right, and that was, you know, I've had some amazing moments, I have to say, with talking to students. And one of the things I really regret about this period is that I did not get more involved with students because I really wanted to. And I'm hoping that in the new year, I will get involved with students again. Because I think that they're certainly capable of having those conversations.

Bad Hijabi (48:17.169)

And there's certain people that are skilled in dealing with that population group. And there are certain people that really should never talk. Like, and I think that you just, I think that you just are naturally like one of your talents is dealing with that kind of stuff. And you should just do it. You should just take the opportunity.

Lee Weissman (48:24.544)

Right.

Lee Weissman (48:31.424)

Maybe, maybe, maybe. But the demonstration counter demonstration model is never productive. There's nothing about that that works well. It's a losing battle because what will...

Bad Hijabi (48:38.417)

Yeah.

Bad Hijabi (48:48.817)

Like, can we list some things that are not really great strategies? First of all, that's one of them. The protest, counter -protest strategy is really ineffective. The second thing is what Vivian Silver said, and her son is continuing the message. There's no such thing as peace that came about because of war. War never ever brings peace. It just creates more destruction and—

Lee Weissman (48:55.232)

That's one, yes.

Yeah. Yes.

Bad Hijabi (49:19.932)

—and suffering. And so this notion that, you know, we're going to save lives by killing more people and we're going to like make everyone safer by destroying people's homes and things like that. I mean, that's like, I don't know why that idea is so...

Lee Weissman (49:35.008)

Well, I feel like we're living in the World War II delusion. I've noticed this. Look, I can list 50 wars. I mean, I could go on. Forget my lifetime, okay? Vietnam, total waste of time. Okay, total waste of time. Let's see, where else?

Bad Hijabi (49:49.905)

Mm.

Bad Hijabi (49:56.593)

Yeah.

Lee Weissman (50:04.512)

All that happened in Yugoslavia, big, big, horrible, horrible, horrible mess. Never should have happened. It was just racist nonsense. North Korea, South Korea, Korean War resulted in North Korea, our biggest enemy. Iran -Iraq War, there was a good one, right? Distorted an entire generation of young men for absolutely nothing.

Bad Hijabi (50:08.849)

Yeah, Bosnia -Herzegovina, yeah.

Bad Hijabi (50:16.145)

Afghanistan, North, yeah, yeah.

Bad Hijabi (50:26.577)

Yep.

Lee Weissman (50:32.928)

The First World War, which literally accomplished nothing. Right? Literally nothing was accomplished except the defeat of Germany and the humiliation of Germany, which eventually led to World War II.

Bad Hijabi (50:38.449)

Mm -hmm.

Bad Hijabi (50:46.129)

and the restructuring of the Middle East, which led to all sorts of bullshit that we're still living with.

Lee Weissman (50:49.728)

Right, right, right, right. Iraq, right, Iraq now, right, which has the, which has the, has a government which is now, which is now run by exactly the people who didn't like us. And Afghanistan, right, Afghanistan, I don't know, $18 billion didn't work, okay? So none of these, okay, so, so war as a solution, right—

Bad Hijabi (51:05.617)

—can we talk about Afghanistan? Can we talk about that? Did that work? Did we?

Lee Weissman (51:19.008)

—does not have a great track. But wait a second. What about Hitler? What about Hitler? Right.

Bad Hijabi (51:19.953)

It's never worked. Okay, and you know the thing we, hey, I'm gonna stop you and be like, okay, you know what? I know about this. When people are like, well, war eliminated the Nazis. really, did it? No, it didn't. No, it actually didn't. War did not eliminate the Nazis. Precisely none of the major Nazis that we talk about now were eliminated by the war.

Anyway, like that's so bullshit.

Lee Weissman (51:51.616)

So the bottom line is, right, so that's kind of the hope. And that's why you have to make everybody a Nazi, right? Because if you make everybody a Nazi, then the only way to deal with them is through violence, right? Because Nazi, you couldn't, because, right, you couldn't, those, there have to be people who you cannot talk to, right? You cannot talk to them. There's nobody to talk to, right?

And so the best thing to do is to make everybody a Nazi. And once you make them a Nazi, then, you know—

Bad Hijabi (52:20.433)

Well, then you're like human monsters. There's only one solution for human monsters, isn't there? We had this discussion with David. That's why we want human monsters.

Lee Weissman (52:28.032)

Right, right, there's only one solution to human monsters and that's why we have to make them monsters.

Bad Hijabi (52:35.857)

You know what I find really repugnant about this whole situation with this massacre and all this stuff? I find it really gross that there was lots of warning. Well, there were a fair number of warning signs that were brought to the attention of people who could make these decisions and that there were people who did live their lives close to the border who like actually lived peace, like Vivian, you know, was one of those people who would be there to take it to their medical appointments and she spent time in Gaza and she whatever, right? Okay. And so like their lives were lost because they believed in peace. And now everyone is using, well, the, you know, the warmongering group.

Lee Weissman (53:11.584)

Yes.

Bad Hijabi (53:32.305)

—is using that to justify ongoing military vengeance. Like, I can't stop thinking about the fact that this is like absolutely the worst, like the opposite. Like, what did he say, Vivian's son? We're dealing with exactly what my mother lived her life trying to prevent. And like, people are using that, like they're using the death of all of these people who believed in peace because that's why they lived there. They're using that to destroy peace. Like, I can't, like, nobody's talking about that. How, like, like, you know, and there's like whole stories that we don't hear here in like mainstream non -Jewish, like, you know, mainstream society in North America about, you know, how the hostages, the families of the hostages are trying to—

—you know, get some results and stuff. And, you know, they're protesting. And I just saw this video, like some police brutality and some woman of family of a hot hostage who was released in there and trying to secure the release or some deal or something. She was really angry and she was describing about, you know, brutality and having to get treated at the hospital and stuff. Like we don't, you know, we are so like, we're so removed in North America.

I feel like we are so removed from what what's actually happening. But we, at the same time, so much is put on us to be responsible and have the solution and to fix things and to be this big savior and stuff. But then we don't always have the whole picture. So I always feel like it's really hard to carry that responsibility and not also know that on some level, I sort of feel like we're always being manipulated because I'm aware of the fact that what's said in the non-English languages—

Lee Weissman (55:11.008)

Yes.

Bad Hijabi (55:24.625)

—might not be the same as what's said in the English language, right?

Lee Weissman (55:26.528)

Yeah, that's for sure. That's for sure. That's for sure.

Bad Hijabi (55:31.313)

And so then it's, you know, becomes to like me relying on people like you or, you know, somebody who knows all the languages and who is not, you know, going to bullshit me and stuff. Right. So like on some level, like that's kind of like, it's like, it's hard because, you know, we're like, okay, like you said, we, we just want justice. So we just take what information and the kids are the same, you know, when you're 25 or whatever, and you look at all this stuff and you're like, well, I have to do something. Right.

Lee Weissman (56:00.448)

Right, so the question is what do you do? And maybe next time we'll get to our question of moving forward. We didn't get there yet. We didn't get there yet.

Bad Hijabi (56:09.041)

Yeah, because we never even talked about that. But I think this is part of we I think this is kind of part of moving forward. Like, I feel like there's Yeah, like, I think it's really interesting that like, lately, the not always but lately, the some of the weekly, like, Parshah lessons have been like, like important, like have introduced important concepts like this week was the whole thing with the guy who was, you know, the rebellious guy and the—

Lee Weissman (56:15.328)

Well, at least now we understand how we're stuck. So that's always good.

Bad Hijabi (56:38.097)

—being swallowed up by the, you know, not, you know, that whole like thing, right? I think all of these things are like important and you know, how do you have spiritual disagreements and what are the disagreements about and you know, stuff like that. I know, I think it's like, like they're like, it's not like we don't have the solutions we do, we just are have so much chaos and so much like emotional, like emotional shrapnel flying around is hard to like, I don't know, be reasonable anyway.

Lee Weissman (57:09.472)

Well, I have to get going because I have another engagement. Yes, I'm very popular, yes. I have another engagement. And so I wish you a happy Sunday. And I feel like there should be a Canadian greeting. Some sort of lumberjack greeting. I don't know.

Bad Hijabi (57:13.937)

Ooh, you're so popular!

Well, do you remember like Bob and Doug McKenzie? You can Google them. You could look them up sometime. Bob and Doug McKenzie, the Hosers. This one like years ago. Yeah.

Lee Weissman (57:37.056)

No.

Lee Weissman (57:42.144)

The hosers. Yes, well I'll check to see if I can find the appropriate Canadian greeting. Okay, well I'm gonna have to go out now. And that's my next date. Okay. Okay. Okay, bye.

Bad Hijabi (57:45.969)

Check it out, yeah.

Bad Hijabi (57:51.272)

All right, it's been You got to go to your next date whoo Okay. Well as usual, it's been great and we'll continue this discussion next week Okay.

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Adventures of Bad Hijabi
Conversations Podcast
can religion be a solution to, rather than the cause of, human suffering? a blog and a podcast about dehumanization, spirituality, and religion.